Bootstrapped Web

Bootstrap web. We made it. We're we're back on the air. Here we are, Jordan. How's going, buddy?

I'm good. I'm good. We almost, we almost did that thing where we start talking and then we don't record and it was good. Now we're in it. Yep.

Great to see you. Good to record another episode. I know you're gonna be skiing next week, it's good to get one in.

Yeah. Hopefully skiing next week pending this never ending pandemic. We'll see how how things play out, but we're all good as of today.

True. You know where the pandemic doesn't exist? At Disneyland last week with my family. Put put it out of your mind.

Alright. Give the give us the report. How how did that how did that play out?

I mean, was a home run. I was skeptical going in. I was like, all right, I guess we got to go to Disney because we have kids. So let's do it once and kind of get it over with kind of mentality. I was wrong.

I was very, very wrong. It was spectacular. I can't say enough good things.

It's actually kind of fun as a parent in a way, you know?

I had some interesting experiences there actually that, that it comes to mind now that we are talking on the podcast. While I was there, I was thinking about the podcast. I was thinking like, these are some interesting experiences because the first of all, it makes you like, before we get into that stuff, it makes you like the parent and the family that you like want to be Like I have, I was basically holding hands with my kids for like three days straight. And then you're like sleeping in the same hotel room. It's like so fun and great.

And the one we went to the one in California, it was so well done.

I think that people without kids are not, are totally not going to understand this, but there's something about it's, it does make you feel like you're a kid again, like going on the rides and seeing, you know, seeing the characters and stuff like, you know, it's kind of stupid and kitty, but it's like, I don't know, it's fun as you put that

view of things aside.

Yeah. You're experiencing it again through your kid's eyes. You know, it's a ton of fun.

And we went to the one in California and it was so well done and so manageable. And, you know, you can't help also but bring your adult view and especially your business view on it. And you realize it is done to the nines. It is the full might and weight of the American stock market access to capital. It is no expense spared at such a high level.

Dude, that really played out in my head. We went to the one down in Florida. It's on such another level from any Like other amusement Six Flags, like none of them

have Not anything on Disney.

It's crazy. It's like you just look at the systems in place around this park. Yeah. The operations. The operations, the from the characters to the

The safety. I don't even know how no one gets hurt.

I mean, I I remember like these little things like we we stopped for ice cream, we're eating ice cream and then and then some ice cream spills on the ground And we turn our heads and like five minutes later, the ice cream is gone. Somebody came and cleaned it up.

We didn't even know. Yeah, nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And then the technology involved also the app.

So it was a great experience. I definitely had some like adult moments, which I think we will end up talking about in this episode also in terms of now. I definitely had, I had to split my mind and I had to put away stress and work and really be able to focus on like fun and family. And I hope I can do that as effectively when I'm in my normal life because it bleeds over in, in day to day life. It bleeds into sure.

I go downstairs and I start to cook, but then I kind of check my phone and then maybe I just replied to a Slack message while my kids like, Hey dad, can you come here? And I'm like, just one second. And down there it felt ridiculous to do that. Where I'm be on my phone, walking around the park or what am I doing?

You know, I still all these years, and I think we've talked about this numerous times on this podcast. I've still not been able to disconnect my personal mood and outlook and the revenue graph. I I cannot disconnect the two. And now in Zip Message, it's at this point where for the last few months we've been getting conversions on a daily basis, like new paying customers coming in every day. But then occasionally, like a couple of days in a month, you get no conversions.

Just happens. It might be a Sunday, it might be something. And as that twenty four hour period goes by, once you get into the thirty hours, it's like, wait, what's going on? In my mind, it's still like, okay, like like bad day and it's all over. This business is tanking.

It's it had a good run and it was a fluke. I screwed it up. It's all going to shit. And and then I know, hopefully, like, by the time I wake up in the next morning, if I have another conversion, then it's like, okay. Back to normal.

But if I don't, then it's like, oh, shit. It's all

Yes. Yes. I don't know I don't know how to disconnect it either. I I I'm assuming nearly everyone listening to this podcast feels something similar. I do feel that it would be better to find additional sources of joy.

Right. Hobbies, activities, friends, games. And when I do that, you reminded of it, right? So every once in a while, like Colin from customer, he he's got season tickets for the Timbers game. Every once in a while, we'll go to a soccer game.

It just feels like joy. It feels like normal joy that's disconnected from anything about business. Then end up talking about businesses, but it's still different.

I just came back from big snow, tiny comp, east in Vermont, which was a lot of fun.

Tell us.

Well, you know, it's a good group. And this year we had a couple of new faces join us, which was a lot of fun. Really, really cool to get to know some new people and always come back from it energized with new ideas. And it's a good form of pressure that we put on on each other. We have the the other one, in Colorado coming up in a couple of weeks.

You know, it's just a long time mastermind group that we've been meeting up for for many years now. So it's nice to show up. We go skiing and snowboarding together and and then we do what we call basically sessions, like like hot seat sessions and just getting really really honest, constructive feedback. And it's always, it always really energizes me to come back.

It's, it's the trust built up over years that allows you to skip all the shame and you go right through it and get right into the real stuff. And that's when the quality comes out.

Exactly. Especially on the Colorado one, we don't have any new people coming there. So it's like you show up and yeah. And, and, and we're also in touch throughout the year. So it's like, you don't need the backstory.

We can jump right in, you know?

Yeah, that's so good. It's so good to have those. I need more of those. I kind of took a step back. I have this core group of like Portland crew that we have a Slack and they kind of know everything, you know, but it's like, I don't remember, it's like for the people.

I feel like I could use more of it. Now, when I meet someone, you know, relatively new or catch up with someone and I tell them what's going on, they're like, What are you talking about? There's so much backstory that you need

Yeah, to get so much that you missed, right?

Yes, that's that's right. All of us.

Yeah. Actually before, before we go to Colorado, I'm doing a one week vacation, no kids. My wife and I were going to Hawaii. So, oh man, I can't wait for that.

Pretty good.

That'll be a good break.

That's pretty good.

If it doesn't get canceled. We'll see.

No, no. Look, nevermind, I'm not going to say that. We also have a Hawaii trip coming up in March, but we're going to need it because our kids are going to hate us because this weekend we're going to tell them that we are moving to a different city, which will turn their life completely upside down. That's kind of one of those pieces of stress that I'm kind of hanging out with while trying to focus on work. But this is what we do.

We do hard That's right.

Well, what can we talk about? That's actually meaningful here. I could talk a little bit about marketing. Not that I know what I'm doing on that, You know, okay. So we had a couple of good like marketing spikes in the last couple of months.

So I did the Product Hunt launch that that did fairly well. I showed up on a couple of podcasts that drove some traffic and that helped some of the flywheel start turning. But now as we get into February, those things are a few weeks in rear view mirror. So things are starting to calm down a little bit. So I'm starting to look ahead to what are the next things that can bring in some new pockets of customers.

I have one guest article that will soon be published on Zapier's blog that'll drive I had one in the past over there and it did drive a lot of traffic, so I I'm feeling pretty good about that. It's got some nice positioning for Zip Message all over it. I'm still sort of making the rounds to to a bunch of different podcasts. Today is this is actually the second podcast I'm recording today. I was just on

a And little bit this

then the other thing is I hired a writer to create some new guides. We're working on, one, one big one right now, which should hopefully publish in the next couple of weeks. So I wanna get like some SEO content guides developed this year. That's more of a slow burn sort of a strategy. Just gotta get those wheels turning.

And then the other one which will be slow to develop is the integration partnerships. I'm already talking to a few other companies and products about doing an integration with them, but on the technical front, it's going to take, like right now I'm working with the developers to prepare our app for being integratable.

Okay. So slightly more open API. Can you give an example of like what, you know, for us an integration is a back end platform or a landing page platform on the front end or, you know, a payment processing integration? Like what, what's, what would a typical normal integration be like? Is it something to embed on or?

It'll probably involve a lot of embedding. I have a list of categories of apps. So there's podcast hosts that I'm talking to a few of those and there's like CRMs and then membership platforms, membership plugins, membership SaaS. So like course selling software and then help desk software. So each of those categories has different use cases attached to them.

Yeah. Wonder if recruiting.

Recruiting would be another one, to add to that list. And also calendar booking too, even though they're sort

of like the opposite of

what we do that we're async and calendar is sync. What I often do is I book a call with someone and then we have a zip message to follow-up or leading up both of them.

I think the integration potential is like that can crack things open.

So I'm still like trying to strategize around, like I sort of know what the customer's end goal is with these integrations. And most of those, what I just listed there basically come from requests from customers in terms of like what they're trying to do. Yeah. How they're using

it. Perfect. Perfect.

I'm still trying to think through sort of like what the what the technical integration would look like with each of those and also what the what the business relationship should how that should be formed. And I haven't fully fully figured all all those details out yet, but it's like that's what we need to flesh out. And then on the technical side, we we have already released our public API, developer API, but that's only available if you're a developer and you wanna build a custom integration for yourself to use. We we have those API endpoints available. But we but it's not yet set up to have an integration partner where where out where our users will our customers have both us and them and then they connect us.

Like that we're we still need to set up the structure for that.

Yeah. So I'm mostly useless at most things, but on integrations, at least I have something there. So can I give you my, what my reaction is as you're saying that? First, the commercial, I would aim for zero commercial partnership. No rev share either way.

Those are the, those are the best partnerships. It's the help desk software or the recruiting, hiring management. It's the software that has a healthy business that is uninterested in getting a rev share from you, or you getting rev share from them. And they just want to add value to their existing customer base.

A 100%. That's yeah. I didn't even really mean forming a rev share sort of thing. Well, like what, one of the things that I'm thinking through is like, so we currently have two pricing tiers. We have three, we have a free, we have a, and then two paid pricing tiers.

All of the integrations are going to go on paid pricing tiers. Some of them will be on the premium level. Some of them will be on the basic level.

You do have to figure out how to price it.

Yeah. Like, meaning like, like right now our, our current API that I already, that I just described is only available on the premium account level. But there will be some integrations that we wanna make available to to customers who are on our basic plan. And and so we're we're building out the strategy and logic for like, if an account is on our basic plan, then they can access our integrations with X, Y, and Z. But if they're on the premium plan, then they get access to these extra integrations with these other higher value partners.

Was looking at it the wrong way because our product always has me in the mindset of we'll make money anyway. It doesn't come from the usage directly involved with their product. We just work together all in the same effort. That's not the same thing for you. You really have to think about who's the customer.

Is it the help desk software? Cause if that's the customer, then that's a different type of customer.

Yeah. And I guess there could be some situations where we'll make an integration available for free users too, where, like where it makes sense and where it could actually drive more free usage.

Right. That's right. The other thing I would look at is, is we always approach an integration. And one of the most ideal forms is there's actually zero technical work and it just works out of the gate, but we can call it integration and then market it as such. And for you that might just be embed.

Meaning like they just take a page of theirs and embed it. And then there's no integration work beyond that. Or you create a page for them and that's it.

We already offer embedded. Like you can already embed a zip message. And that's what I talk Like when people ask about integrations, that's usually the first thing I say like, well, you don't even need to touch our API. You could just take our embed code that we give you.

Yeah. It's like that and then do co marketing and then everyone wins. So no one has to do anything in their roadmap, you know, barely.

And we have a Zapier integration too. That, that too is like marketable.

That's right.

But I do think that there's like marketing potential there. It's just like, again, that'll be more of a slower burn of like build the partnership, get it all built out and launched. And then, and you've got to do many of those before it really makes a difference, I think. Then,

You gotta get the right one. The right one can double your customer base in a month.

But I'm still like, right now I'm still looking for like, while that stuff is being built out and while the SEO content is being developed, I'm still looking for those quick hits. Like, can I get a guest post on this high traffic blog? Can I get on this high traffic podcast? Like just trying to be as active as possible, you know? Which is tricky.

Especially tricky when I'm working on the product every day.

That's right. The focus. Our marketing is underway. We are actively running ads. We're still in the beginning stages of our direct sales outreach.

What I have found is that I am a very big problem in the marketing process. I am a bottleneck and it keeps coming up and I got to figure it out. So what ends up happening, We've been tweaking the process of content and like what happens. So at first we had a topic and then it gets written and then I see it and then I'm not happy with it. And then I start to rewrite it and then no one's happy.

The writer's not happy. We're not happy. You know, our content person's unhappy. It's all, it's all bad. So we tried to flip it.

We said, okay, know that

all too well.

No. So now if Jordan's going to be so opinionated because these are still these very foundational pillar type things that we're talking about are key features. Then let's get his opinion first and we'll do a thirty minute Zoom call and we'll record it and we'll come out with an outline and then the writer will write it based on that. Okay. So that was like our attempt to making it better.

Now that's happening and I am still doing a little too much rewriting and it's causing delays and I constantly feel guilty. So it's now it's bad on my part also. So we, I gotta figure it out. Yeah.

I literally just gave feedback on the article that this new writer for me is writing just yesterday.

It's tough because no two people write the same way. So it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

This this writer is really really great, really talented, call it like high end of of the market for for writers, right? So what's what's been really good and what I've been glad to see is that like, all right, the writing itself and the quality and the phrasing and all that is beautiful.

Right, but the conveyance of ideas is

Yeah and even the ideas are good but I still need to get in there and say like, we need to promote this idea over that idea because this is where how we're positioning the product. And even though the article is not exactly about the product, it's a it is a key positioning article for us and we need to present it in a certain way.

Yes. It's a problem. We're going to have to just keep working at it and figuring it out and then find a good writer and then like invest in getting aligned on the voice and the perspective over a few months. So that's been challenging. I need to do a better job of that.

And it's tough because when I don't do a good job of it, I also feel bad. And then I don't like guilt in any of the stuff that I do. I don't like, I like to drop the guilt, but I feel bad. So that's been challenging, but the volume is picking up and that feels really good. And we have like, now all of sudden we have, you know, a larger number of accounts that are in process and onboarding.

And now what that's making me think about is, okay, as that starts to materialize, I got to get my fundraising engine going.

I want to hear more about this.

So this, this has been a real learning experience for me because I plan to fundraise a different way because we're going to launch a token and that starts to impact the fundraising. Okay.

All All All right. Right. So like, let's, let's walk through it. Like what, what do you mean by you're launching a token and then, and, and then tell me about the fundraising.

The future value in the company is likely to be driven toward a token instead of toward equity. So what that really means is the token model that we've developed is such that when we get a new merchant on board, as the product grows, as the product is adopted by more merchants, as GMV processed and therefore revenue generated by our checkout product, that is the underlying engine of the token model. That is what drives the value of the token. And I don't want to get too detailed until we're ready for that. But we have a few mechanisms that drive the token value up based on the adoption and growth of the processing revenue at the checkout level.

And so what that means is the upside of the token value is going to be higher than the value of the equity if we keep driving more value in that direction. And so what that really means is how do we finance the company starts to be answered more by, well, sell tokens because they're going to be worth a lot more than your equity. And therefore you get a higher valuation because there's more upside. And then you start to put the two together. You start to say, here's our token model.

Here's our traction. When you combine these two, the token value is going go through the roof. Don't you want to invest? Right. That's basically the pitch.

This is a good follow-up from our last episode where we got into the web three kind of stuff. And so my basic understanding of it, basic is in a way it's sort of like crowdfunding the company. Right? Because it's like selling the token, you're investing in the future value of this token which is based on the value of the company, the sales and revenue of the company.

Right. And it's indirect, right? If it was direct, it would be a security and it's not a security, it's a form of ownership, right? We want merchants to own a portion of the token network that's associated with the checkout itself. Now, reason you can do that in such a way that the company, the people who work at the company and the investors are all financially incentivized is that you hold onto the same token That the merchants earn also.

And so everybody wants the value of the token to go up because they're earning the token. We hold the token and that's how we can kind of operate as a for profit financially motivated entity while losing ownership. Like in a few years we will be minority owners of the network and the merchants will own most of it, but that's the goal. That's the whole, the whole point.

How do you think about the future, the future of that? I mean, I get the opportunity of, of really building into this web three future if you will, but just as a founder, as an entrepreneur, business owner, if that's if that's where this future if if you're successful enough where where the future leads to a highly valuable token that then you and you as the first owner of Rally are a minority owner. What does that actually look like?

It is it is different. And it is one of the things that I've had to wrap my mind around along with a lot of other things. And I can talk about some of them because that's what I've been spending my time in over the last few weeks is learning the process and the terminology and the reasoning and how to pitch and why and who and which ecosystem to build in and all of these different new factors that don't exist in the traditional equity world.

Well, the only analogy that I can think of, and maybe this is still too limited is a company going public, a publicly traded company.

It's a mixture between that and open source software.

Okay. Yes. Yep.

Okay. It's kind of like what you're asking about really is, is, is the founder and founding team's comfort with becoming less and less important in the overall equation of the project over time, as opposed to gaining in significance, right? Think about like, let's just think about us and Shopify. Shopify starts off as the startup and then turns into this behemoth and who matters most in that ecosystem. Shopify does Shopify management, Shopify shareholders, Shopify decision making.

And in ours, we start as the most critical thing. We put the thing together, we raise the money, we launch the token. And then over time, the merchants start to earn more. And then who ends up as the most valuable, most important entity, not the company, the network of merchants. And they have decision making power put together because they control the community wallet, the foundation reserve, all this money and energy and potential and decision making happens at that level.

The company fades in significance.

Well, that's exactly my question is, is the decision making. What, what does the decision making process or the operate the vision of the company, the product direction, the strategy five, ten years from now when the CEO is a minority owner of the company. Because when I think of a publicly traded company today, you know, Tim Cook still sets the direction of Apple, not the shareholders invest in his, in the team's ability to make Right.

He's accountable to an extent to the board, to the shareholders.

Yep. But it's not like they vote on which product Apple is going to build, right?

Yeah. There's a mixture and there's a lot of gray and there's no one way to do it. And what you'll see people talk about is pure decentralization where from the start, there's no one in control and everything's community. And that's what DAOs are about. And that's what a lot of these like very ideologically driven projects are that are fully open source in the start, no matter what, that sort of thing.

Other projects like ours take a view on decentralizing over time and decentralization itself being a spectrum that it's also a spectrum on who controls what happens when. And so in the beginning to get things done, you need a small group of people able to make quick decisions. And that's the nature of it. And then over time that changes and I don't know how it looks.

Well, I guess if you advance that far in the future and it's that successful, then it's a much more mature product and solution out there in the world that that it's like pretty solid in what it is, what it's here to do. It's not going to change all that drastically.

Yeah. And people can influence it to a degree.

Whereas right now it's super early. So you do need to move fast and make lots of

decisions. Cultural decisions internally and centrally. Yes. So it's that, and I think I'm kind of into that idea to reduce the, my role. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

Yeah. This dude, I'm so psyched to be a cohost on this podcast now. I feel like I get to, I get like a front row seat and like I'm slowly starting to learn and starting to see an actual path to how Web3 actually starts to happen.

Starts to change things.

You know, like I get it. It's intriguing, but it never started to really seem real until I start to, we have these conversations,

you know? Well, that's, that's, that's great to hear. It has been a journey for me also in that same way. And I hope being able to talk about this stuff as it happens on the podcast helps other people in software see that this is not separate. It's not necessarily separate from what we were just doing a year or two ago.

It's going to be all blended up because when I talk to investors, one of the key things that they ask me is why, why does this need a token? Why do you need to do this instead of just, just go compete with Bolt? They just got a $14,000,000,000 valuation. Just go do what they did and you're going to smash it out of the park. And the reason, the real underlying reason for it is because it provides you advantages that not using a token doesn't provide.

And we are in the position where we should use every unfair advantage possible. And so if you look across like this landscape of potential things that we're going to do with the token, it's all intended to drive adoption into the product and whatever unfair advantage we can use. So our token model, what it really does is it makes a pitch to merchants that I think is better than other products. Our competitors make a pitch. If you join Rally as an e commerce merchant and you process revenue with our checkout, you will earn far more in tokens than you will pay us in cost.

I can't make that pitch without a token. And I want to make that pitch. I want to yell that pitch from the mountaintops with a war chest to market it behind me. So I don't know how to do that otherwise. So I hope other people running software companies start to see these things as like, Hey, this can help you grow your business.

Maybe it's a different approach.

And it seems like the kind of fundamental building block in your company to get right this early. Not that it's, it would be impossible. I guess it wouldn't be impossible for a software company to eventually start to adopt Web three technology in the future, but much harder to like bolt it on when you're more established later on.

That's right. I see it. The reason I really want to do it right now is because if you look at the innovation and growth curve of our competitors, you'll see that we are just much earlier on. And they are much further up the innovator's dilemma curve of like, well, they can't change what they're doing. They can't completely swap their business model to drive it toward a token instead of toward their shareholders.

So that's actually the best position to do this in When your competitors are so big that for them to, for Shopify to start foregoing revenue to their shareholders and drive it toward their merchants is unlikely. And if they do it, it's probably not going to be anywhere near the same way we do it. Yeah. So that's the past few weeks have been for me on more research. And a lot of this stuff went from, okay, we have a token model.

We're talking about these concepts to how do I present this to people? Which ecosystem are we building in? Which chain are we building on? Why? Make sure we're making the right decisions that we don't regret into the future.

How do we coordinate between the what the business wants, which is the ability to raise money as best as possible from an ecosystem compared to what the product and tech want, which is to build using the best tech possible. And those aren't always aligned.

Yeah. What would be the next steps in terms of raising in that way? Raising money for a token, right? Cause the token doesn't have the value. That's the future value of this token that it's like, how would you go about like marketing that as a token to raise, you know?

Yeah. And all of this is very careful. So it's all with legal, it's all lawyers. And what you're doing is making sure that you're not selling these as securities because they're not securities. They're different.

And that's why you don't launch the token until it has utility. So the token doesn't get launched for a long time until we're ready to actually put the network live. And then merchants are earning tokens because that's what provides the utility for them to get access to the product and the benefits of the token itself. So when you raise money now, people have adopted something called a SAFT, a simple agreement for future tokens instead of simple agreement for future equity. And so what you're doing is making sure that you are not selling tokens.

You are selling equity with warrants for future tokens or some, some mechanism like that, like a Saft. So all this stuff is, yeah, it's look, it does the same thing.

Web three people have it all figured out.

We'll see.

I love it, dude.

This So is there's a, there's a new field right in, in the law, legal world on figuring this stuff out to do it the right way. And you definitely, none of this is worth, you know, screwing with the SEC over. So you gotta do everything the right way.

Love it. Yeah. The only other quick thing that I have that I'm dealing with right now. So today, Friday is actually the last day that my developer is with me, which is a sort of a stressful, moment here because he he's been amazing. He is employed by an agency that I work with, that I've been working with for several years.

They they as an agency, the management and the whole team have have been incredible. I spoke to them about a month ago, six weeks ago and they informed me like, he's, he's on his way out. He took this other much better position. I'm super happy for him. He's, he's, he's, he's a young guy, but he's really talented and he's, and he's moving on to a pretty exciting position, but it won't be with me.

It's, it's, it's, somewhere else. And so

So how do you, how do you think about it?

So they, and I've gone through this transition with this agency once before, where my previous guy left and then they transitioned me to him. That was super smooth. Like one shadowed the other and then it was great. This time, like everyone else in the world, the agency is, has had a harder time hiring an equal level of experienced developer to replace them. So they presented me with this plan where they assigned me to a slightly more junior developers being overseen by a much more senior developer.

That the two juniors are full time for me, the senior is part time overseeing multiple clients for agency. Those three new people, the senior plus the two juniors have been working directly with my guy who's on his way out for the past month. I had a call with all of them, got to meet all of them and I started to give them issues over the last two or three weeks and seeing how they're how they're doing. And it's understandably it's like slower for them to complete issues than my guy could just knock out really quick. For the most part it's been good.

Like they're junior but they're not complete novices when it comes to development. But they're also new to the code base. Well, one of them has been following for shadowing for several months. The other is brand new. So it's like a slower learning curve, just like it would be with any developer turnover.

And there have been some hiccups in some of some of the the issues. I have to review the code a lot more closely than I would normally. And I've had to point out some some fixes and things to make. And it comes at a time right now where I I already talked about all those API partnership technical changes that we have to make. I also have two or three like pretty significant features that are like 90% built that I'm trying to finish up and and ship out the door.

And then we have the normal flow of a couple of bug fixes here and then, and, and you know, just optimizations that need to be made. And so it's just a lot like right now I literally feel like on our GitHub board, we have like a traffic jam of GitHub issues that are that are all trying to funnel toward a shipped state. And it's been a really big challenge for me to get these things fully tested, fully shipping ready and and shipped, while getting these newer slower developers up to speed at the same time. I'm not doing the work of getting them up to speed. Luckily, the agency and my developers leaving, he trains them, which is great.

It's just that I have to sit here keeping a closer eye than I normally would.

You gotta put your guard up more until until the trust is built.

And also in a way it's like, it's been it's been good that they were able to assign like now I essentially get two developers sort of for the price of one right now, which is cool. And I can literally assign them two different things to work on simultaneously, which is helpful in a way that sort of makes up for the slowness is that we can do more simultaneously, but I'm the only product manager. So that means a lot more on my plate in terms of preparing issues for them, terms of QA, testing their work and then getting it ready to ship. Again, it gets it's I am now the bottleneck. It used to be just me and my one developer and we can ship and we have a perfect flow for creating and shipping.

Now it's me reviewing two developers and reviewing literally twice as many GitHub issues at the same time. So suddenly I'm the bottleneck in this process and it's a, and it it'll be a little bit scary next week when my developer is completely out of the picture, my long time one. So now I'm completely dependent on these guys. We'll see what happens over the

next You've few put the work in to get it back to where it needs to be.

Yeah. Yeah. So.

All right. Well, we will not be here next week, but maybe the week after we'll get an update on.

Yep. Yep. Sounds I think we had a good one here.

I think we did. We made it happen. Thanks for listening everyone. Have a great weekend.

Folks. See you.