Pipeline Energy
Welcome back, everybody. Another episode of Bootstrap Web. Brian, coming to you from snowy Chicago.
Brian Casel:Oh, man. I am jealous. I I hope we get some of that snow. We usually do. If it's if it's by you, then we'll get it in a few days.
Brian Casel:Yep. May maybe I can sneak in a ski trip with my kids before I head out to big snow tiny camp two weekends from now.
Jordan Gal:Oh. Like a little warm up before the or up north.
Brian Casel:The first one is is our east trip which is usually in Vermont. We're going to Montreal this year. We're going up to Montre Blanc.
Jordan Gal:Yo. I've heard good
Brian Casel:I things about
Jordan Gal:was in Montreal. Oh my god. It's a long time ago. But I was so impressed with that city.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I've I've been there once when I was a kid. And I and I've never snowboarded up there. So this will be really fun.
Nathan Barry:Yeah. Cool.
Jordan Gal:Funny enough. Last time I was there was a massive snowstorm.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And it
Jordan Gal:was so cool seeing the city just just buried that way. This one I'm not that happy about. I'm in a bad mood. I'm cranky. My dad was supposed to come visit and I'm I was so excited to have him visit with the kids and all that stuff and he's coming from Florida.
Jordan Gal:And
Brian Casel:Oh, yeah.
Jordan Gal:Screwed up all the flights. So deal with United and Chase and all that stuff. But hopefully, we might just get him here tomorrow.
Brian Casel:Alright. Alright. Yep. This
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Yeah. You could tell I'm all pumped up. I'm ready to roll.
Brian Casel:Let's do it.
Jordan Gal:You know, if you if you're not talking, I'm gonna talk.
Brian Casel:I I got my second coffee right in front of us. We're This is gonna be
Jordan Gal:an just to say espresso. Alright.
Brian Casel:Yeah. So I've got like basically two things. So you wanna Should I head into it? I I actually I got one. You know what?
Brian Casel:I I talked a few weeks back about one of the benefits of us doing this podcast, at least to is the network effects. And I I wanna kinda chime in here with my first thing because
Jordan Gal:Okay.
Brian Casel:May maybe I can reap some benefits of the network effects here. I I think I'm looking to hire someone. Okay. And I don't know that it would be a listener, but maybe a listener might know someone. And it's it's a weird decision but it it it's starting to become more and more obvious that I think I need someone.
Brian Casel:This is to work on clarity flow. And my thought going into '24 has been like, let's cut costs down to like the essentials, keep you know, keep the development team kind of lean. I've got some marketing stuff that's going on, I've got server costs but like other than that, let's just kinda you know, let let Clarity Flow do its thing. But one and and and part of that equation has to be how do we free up my time as much as possible. Right?
Brian Casel:Because I need to be working on my new business called Full Stack Founder. I need a lot of time and hours and and especially more like creative energy Mhmm. On this new business.
Jordan Gal:Gotta go zero to one.
Brian Casel:And so the thing that Like I already have my developer on on the team and she takes care of almost all of the development needs. And I I'll feed her issues. I gotta scope stuff out for her. But like I'm not It's not a ton of work or it's not a big burden for me to do my thing on the product on Clarity Flow on a on a limited basis going forward. Where it gets more tricky is the customer support and customer success.
Brian Casel:So I guess that's how you would define this role that I think I need to hire for. You you start with customer success. That's how I Because it's it's a support role. It would be like the first support person besides myself in this business. But the most important critical high impact part of the support is onboarding new customers.
Jordan Gal:Okay.
Brian Casel:Making them successful. And what this looks like in Clarity Flow, it's probably not unlike a lot of other SaaS businesses, especially ones that are sort of like platforms that are pretty Complicated is the wrong word. It's just a big project to get up and running. Mhmm. But you know because every coach who comes in, they are evaluating whether or not they are ready to ditch whatever tools they've been using and adopt Clarity Flow and install it in their business, set up new coaching programs, start inviting their clients, set up their custom branding, do some integrations like they're A lot In many cases, they're moving their payments through
Jordan Gal:I do customer is doing revenue every month actively and so it's up and running to the point where it functions so it needs to move over to your system and then start functioning.
Brian Casel:And you know, I talked about how I I launched a self serve video demo that people can watch and that that does help some people self onboard and self convert. But for other people especially the more like the more ideal coaches in that they are, they're more active, they have a lot more clients, a higher stakes business, so they watch my demo and that gets them sort of like excited about the possibilities, but then they send an email like, hey, can I just talk to someone? Can I have a call? Can I have some Can I can I bounce some ideas on how I wanna structure my coaching business? So they need sort of support, they need some hand holding, they need some guidance and advice on how to implement, but but also just like coaching these coaches on how to structure and launch their So it would be great if I could find someone who could do that.
Brian Casel:Someone who is obviously a great kinda support and communicator. Someone who can not only do like email support but hop on a call, do a lot of video async messaging with customers. And then I'm trying to think about like interesting ways to maybe incentivize this person and maybe also build this into a new offering like a paid concierge service from Clarity Flow. So I'm just There's a lot of like ideas on how this could work. It could be just a basic like you know, part time retainer role and I've And so that that could work fine but maybe as an add on to that, it's like every time we do one of these like paid setup services, you get a portion of that and and you're running that whole thing.
Brian Casel:So
Nathan Barry:Yeah. Put it Yeah. Out
Jordan Gal:Let let's let's see who's out there. It does seem like a great opportunity to just jump into a software company and start talking to customers.
Brian Casel:Yeah. You know, and and like if I think back to audience ops and also restaurant engine before that, when I hired this person, In those those businesses I might have called it like a account manager or a salesperson or a customer support. But it's a lot of words for sort of the same thing which is you're talking to customers and especially new, you know, the new customers are the ones who are sending messages every single day for three weeks straight and then they get all set and then they're good to go. But like, I remember whenever, when I hired that person in those businesses, it was an instant noticeable opening of my time and freedom. I mean, there's a lot of training of that person upfront, so so there's that work.
Brian Casel:But once you sort of like get through that slog, the My schedule completely opens up when I don't have to like talk to every single customer and hand hold and do and do all these demos. Yeah. Like the alternative right now is like since I since I do have to sort of like split my focus and you know, I I can't afford to be full time on on Clarity Flow. I can't afford to to take every single sales demo and be super thorough with every response. Like, it the business suffers.
Brian Casel:Like, it it literally means like some really perfect fit customers are coming in and they're not getting the support that they need. Like, they might get a response from me. I might point them to a video. But if if this is somebody's role who can give it a lot more energy than I can, that would be great. And and I also think about it like you start with customer success but branching right off of that, there are a couple of other I think even more interesting things for this person to do in the same role.
Brian Casel:So creating training material, maybe creating like courses and workshops for our customers. Creating videos or articles, writing docs for our knowledge base, you're learning so much about what customers need. You're the perfect person to create content and training stuff for the customers. That that's one kind of more long term creative project that this person can do. And then the other thing would be helping me with planning features in the roadmap.
Brian Casel:So, you know, my whole thing of being able to talk to customers all the time is like understanding what are the most customers having issues with or most requests are coming in for this or that. What would make life easier for everyone? This person on the front lines, it'd be great if they have a little bit of like crossover skills into like whether it's design, development or just product in general and you can collaborate with me on, okay, you you've helped a 100 customers in this area. We need to make this this better. Let's plan out how we can structure our roadmap for the upcoming year.
Brian Casel:And just like have have a voice in that. You know, I I think this person can can kind of be in those in that role, you know?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Because the question is like,
Brian Casel:who is it? Where where are they from? How do we how do we find this person? You
Jordan Gal:know? Yeah. Where's the match of someone who wants to dive into that? I I I think about this, you know, from time to time in terms of what I would do differently when I was younger. And a lot of it is centered around, I should've worked for a company of like the one I wanted to run.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Me
Jordan Gal:too. Inevitably, would have worked for couple good ones and a couple bad ones. And see Yeah. How not to do things and how to do things and what works and what doesn't work and
Brian Casel:Honestly, would like the the per this person would learn so much and I and I think about like the people who were in this role in my previous businesses. I Part of what makes this challenging and the reason why I even bring it to this podcast is that like, there are some roles that are pretty straightforward on how you would hire for them. Whether it's like hiring a developer, maybe hiring a VA. There are straightforward channels to go about doing that. But I feel like every time I've hired this person, I've gotten super lucky with just finding a rock star who has the set of skills that I just described.
Brian Casel:But is pretty early on in their career. They're they're young, they're talented, but they're not so far along that they have the same lifestyle needs that you and I have, you know. And I look at them today, the people who've moved up in audience ops and moved on from audience ops and like they have incredible careers doing their thing, you know. I'm not saying like me or that role was responsible for that. Like what I'm saying is like they were talented individuals to begin with.
Brian Casel:They're you know, they're they're gonna do their thing no matter what. But if you can catch them at at that like early part of their career, it's the thing.
Jordan Gal:It's it's right. It's it's more of a fit thing. I think about our our, like, support success person now, and that's that's her. She's younger and getting great experience and has been with a few companies and, like, understands how the relationship between a software company and its customers works. Yep.
Jordan Gal:Good, bad, proactive, reactive tools. You just, like, build up this library of knowledge. And eventually, you know, someone will will come in that's more junior than you. And then all of sudden you get a colleague, and then you get someone to teach, and then you start to get this natural management experience before you move up into a management role.
Nathan Barry:Yeah. Okay. Cool. I hope I hope
Jordan Gal:you find someone. Anyone listening? Either you or someone you know?
Brian Casel:Yeah. Like part time, flexible, remote, but but long term we can build stuff together. It'll be really cool. So, yeah. That's that.
Jordan Gal:Okay. Cool. Well, I am thinking about success but not nearly as much as I'm thinking about pipeline. That has come to define my focus for the first week. This feels to me like the first week of the year.
Jordan Gal:Right? The the actual first week of the year, my kids were still off. So I didn't get back to work until Friday which was, you know, it's not really a week. I just kinda got my act together and moved my piles of envelopes of my mail that I haven't opened. I moved them from one place to a more organized pile.
Jordan Gal:That's that's what I got done that week.
Brian Casel:Been there. Yep.
Jordan Gal:Yep. This week was super exciting and I I really wanted to let everyone feel the CEO's energy. That was like so Sunday night, I was walking around my house like like a lunatic like flexing and like pumped up like, yes. You know, fully like manifesting that form of energy. And I came in Monday hot and I, you know, went to Slack hot and into the meetings and the the I just wanted to make sure everyone like got that from me.
Brian Casel:What does that mean? What does that look like?
Jordan Gal:So urgency, I think, is is the defining element of that energy. It is what do we need to do? I'll do it right now. What do you need to do? Go get it done.
Jordan Gal:What about the end of the day? What can we do? What's next? So just that push toward urgency. And, you know, a lot of that comes from the pressure of providing pipeline to two account executives who wanna hit the quota.
Jordan Gal:Mhmm. So this is the element of healthy pressure and stress that is coming out of hiring two salespeople and they have quota and it's their responsibility to make quota, but I feel a lot of responsibility to help them. Mhmm. We're we're working together. Right?
Jordan Gal:Yep. It's not just that I want them to make quota, it's if they hit quota, I'm very happy and never happy happy. So it's good alignment that way.
Nathan Barry:Yep.
Jordan Gal:And while we have several ways to bring people into the pipeline, I feel a lot of responsibility for right. There there there's like two types of pipeline. One form that the AE generates and the other that the company basically generates for the AE. And so marketing, inbound, partner like, all these things that feed in really help them.
Brian Casel:Mhmm.
Jordan Gal:And that's been my focus. And so this week has been great. We spoke to a bunch of merchants and that just the momentum of really just the difference between December and January. So December's being so quiet and then January
Brian Casel:kind of popping. People kinda in January.
Nathan Barry:That's right. They woke up.
Jordan Gal:So we had we had several meetings. We had a few demos. We had second calls. One of those calls looks like it's on track to close as a deal and that that's a huge, like, sense of relief for me. It's not done.
Jordan Gal:It's not closed, but just making sure that we close this week off with the AEs going into the weekend feeling good like, okay. I got some opportunities I'm working with. You know, it's not quiet anymore, like this is gonna work out kind of a thing. Yeah. So that that's been a lot of the focus and you know what I spoke about in the last podcast in terms of that new product offering.
Brian Casel:Right.
Jordan Gal:We've been weaving that in and identifying when it makes sense and when it doesn't make sense and
Brian Casel:Do you okay. So with and for as like a reminder to listeners, we're talking about like you you sort of like decoupled the marketing tools from the core checkout product. And the whole idea is like it it's much less friction to get on board and start getting value from Rally.
Jordan Gal:Yes. Yeah. That's right. So we you said it perfectly. We decoupled the marketing features that can now be embedded on the merchant's existing checkout without needing to change checkouts and with that payments and tracking and fraud protection and everything else.
Brian Casel:How so with that and it's like not like fully launched or it like can you is that like able to be used today by a customer or not yet?
Jordan Gal:Not today.
Brian Casel:Like my question is like how Mhmm. How can you start to weave it into like the sales conversations early to like just get reactions and see how that works even before it's ready?
Jordan Gal:Yes. So so right. If you think about my focus of trying to generate new pipeline, it it's directly related to that. And so that feels like my role specifically is in the coordination between engineering and product and go to market and talking to the go to market team and saying, what do you need in terms of marketing assets? Yeah.
Jordan Gal:So we're working on a landing page that'll be up by next week and screenshots and like a you know, one pager with those screenshots.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I think we talked about this on the last one that Mhmm. My my approach to that is exactly that. It's like market like market the website, market the product and everything like as if this this is how this is the world we're in. This is how it exists.
Brian Casel:This is how you can buy it. Even if those are not ready yet Mhmm. Everything as soon as possible should be like Because that that's how you get the signal. Like you you know, like the You need people to react to it at every step of the funnel from their very first visit to the to the lead capture to the to the sales conversation and then the onboarding. It's like
Jordan Gal:ignore the the shortcomings that will be addressed anyway in the future.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Like even if those cost cost you deals upfront, at least you know like, okay, they dropped off at the point where they couldn't actually use it. Right. But we knew but we knew that like once we ship it, that that one would have converted, you know?
Jordan Gal:Yes. So we're we're kinda like working backwards now. We're saying, okay, when is it gonna be fully fully ready? When's it gonna be half ready? So it includes two types of marketing features.
Jordan Gal:One called order bumps, one called post purchase offers, and order bumps are gonna be ready short in in the shorter term. So it's like, if we have conversations now and a merchant is interested, we still have another, you know, call it two weeks in in the form of a merchant that's super excited and ready to roll. It's still two weeks to get in touch with their tech team and you create an account for them and you all that. Mhmm. So we had that buys us some time right there.
Jordan Gal:And then we understand how long it'll take us to get the other half, the post purchase ready, and that's a few weeks later. So it's like, there's no reason not to sell now. One of the things that it has done one of the challenges that we've had, I think like every software company, is estimating. Time. One of the things we are focusing on is working with our front end lead and back end lead and, like demanding of ourselves to do a better job at scoping and estimating.
Brian Casel:Dude, story of my It's so tough. And I struggle with this for myself. I've I just I constantly notice this is one of my worst habits, I would say, as a business operator. Especially in my form of it with like lean bootstrap doing a bunch of stuff. It's like, I it's like I'm I have a mental breakdown of I I I cannot I don't have a clear concept of how how much time and actual energy from myself things will require.
Brian Casel:So I think that in a day, oh, yeah. These are three things that I can ship between now and the end of the day. And there's no possible way that that's gonna happen today. I can do one of those things, not all three. Mhmm.
Brian Casel:You know?
Jordan Gal:Yep. It's overestimating. I mean, There's the engineering version of it and then there's just like the task version of it.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Yep. And there's like energy management too. It's like, I might have the hours but are they the best hours for me to do all those three things? Mhmm.
Brian Casel:Probably not. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. And it messes with your with your expectations. If you if you keep getting it wrong, it it's like depressing.
Brian Casel:It is. Yeah. Yep.
Nathan Barry:That's the
Brian Casel:thing. Every And that's the other thing I keep noticing. Same same issue is that it's like every single thing that I ship, I feel like I shipped it at least a week or two later than I expected to. Right.
Jordan Gal:And it and it feels bad because you feel behind. But if you did a better job estimating it and set more accurate expectations for yourself, that that could change the psychology of the experience.
Brian Casel:I'm gonna take this clip of us talking about this and I'm gonna replay it like a 100 times to so I could like burn it into my brain.
Nathan Barry:Well, we
Jordan Gal:are so we are taking this project of getting of getting this launched. We're taking the opportunity to use this as like a test case. Like, let's really dive all the way into the specs so that we're not doing that to ourselves. And what's coming out of that is surprise, it's gnarlier than you expected. And at least now we have like we're setting a better set of expectations for ourselves and for the merchants that we're talking to.
Jordan Gal:The interesting thing that's happening is is what we want to happen. The high end of the market, the biggest brands with hundreds of millions in GMV that used to be the ones that we were scared off of engaging with because getting, you know, fill in the blank $500,000,000 merchant to change their checkout is a is a really high hurdle. And now those merchants are really interested in offers in in this decoupled version because it has nothing to do with their payments and checkout. They don't need to change it. It's kind of like a are you telling me we can add three to 5% in revenue next month?
Jordan Gal:Then sure. I'll take a look at that. And it's a day or two to implement? Okay. Let let's take a look at it.
Brian Casel:Yeah. So
Jordan Gal:yeah. We'll we'll we'll see. I'm trying not to get ahead of myself on making assumptions, what changes need to be made, and does this change the nature of our business, and do we need a different form of this or that. I'm trying to just like, let's get as much feedback as possible, as quickly as possible, and then recess.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Yep. Good stuff, man. The only other thing I have is I did manage to put live the new website for my new business.
Nathan Barry:Okay.
Brian Casel:Fullstackfounder.co. That is live as of late last night. I I pulled a late one. Good for you. Nice.
Brian Casel:I, you know, again it was one of those things that I thought I could build and ship this in like two or three days. It turned into a full week but I I did hit my target of like getting it done this week. You know, because like it's it's launching the the website, the home base for a whole business. Like this is v one of that. And, I did like, I did start doing the YouTube videos.
Brian Casel:I I published two. I recorded three more that are in the editing queue now and so that that started but the business doesn't actually fully exist until I have the website and the newsletter capture and then I have like a services page where I'm offering my advising consulting services now and on my product stuff. And then it's set up Basically my goal for this site was to like put all the pieces in place that I'm going to need a for newsletter growth, newsletter capture, art like SEO optimized articles where I'm gonna take every YouTube video and promote it on these articles and and like, you know, turn every video into an article essentially. And then have the the the page to offer the services and then later on, I might have like courses and stuff to add into this site somewhere. Looks good.
Brian Casel:Congrats.
Jordan Gal:Hell yeah.
Brian Casel:I mean it's And I actually I did manage to record a video today sort of recapping this project as part of the full stack founder thing. I'm showing how I designed and built and shipped this site. And the challenge that I It's it's hard when I'm in the moment but I feel like I've gotten fairly good at this as a a full stack founder if you will. Is that is balancing this These conflicting things between you have to ship with speed but you also have to get a lot of the details right. Like, you know, there's like the creative stuff like picking the brand colors and the logo and the fonts and I I get too hung up on that.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I sort of push through and I and now I have my like workflows to shortcut and short circuit that stuff and good enough to ship and that that sort of stuff. But there's this other concept that I wanna try to get across to people is that like there's so many little things that come up when you're doing a project like this. Like, oh, that's so small, such a detail. You could just push that off to later on.
Brian Casel:Like, oh, we can, you can make it like SEO optimized but it's a little tedious. Nobody's even gonna see it on the homepage anyway. Let's just push that off until later. I'll get around to it later. Let's just ship this thing this week.
Brian Casel:Or slap the analytics code on there. Oh, we can do that later. It's it's so small. These things are important. You you need these little things in there from day one and they're so small that if you push them off to later, you won't do them later because they're so small.
Jordan Gal:Sure.
Brian Casel:So while you're on the project just do them and so so that I can just like one like touch this once and then I don't have to touch it again for a while and then I and then I can just run.
Jordan Gal:So I'm gonna assume. We go out on a limb here, that you're better than most at that. Because most people cut that corner, myself included.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I mean there's a lot of little corners that that could be cut. And there's a lot of stuff on this site that like I'm not super happy with. Especially on like the styling and the colors and stuff. Could But at at a certain point it's like, A whole day has gone by.
Brian Casel:I I can't spend another day on it. We gotta go. You know?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. I I hope I can do the same. Like we are we've got this new website and I'm trying to get it done by by the January. That's my goal. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:So I'm gonna keep working on that.
Brian Casel:I think it all starts with the words.
Nathan Barry:If you can get the if you can
Brian Casel:get the copy into a doc, like a Notion doc or something, like that's the biggest thing. And then everything else can can be improved later, you know.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. I I I hear that. I have difficulty with a blank page though. If a designer shows me a page, I'm like move this to here. Let's add a CTA section here.
Jordan Gal:The does the, you know, testimonial section make sense here and how about this? Like that it's that's much easier for me than what the way I've organized it, first in my head and then in a Google Doc, is it's basically like a table with like, you know, bullet point, sub bullet point. That that's how I've written the entire thing.
Nathan Barry:Yeah.
Jordan Gal:So I just say hero section and then I say headline Yeah. Sub headline, any additional copy and then like my my suggestion for what could make sense for the graphic.
Brian Casel:Mhmm.
Jordan Gal:Yep. And then I'll just write like testimonial section and I'll say here's a link for four logos or like logo section. And then I'll, you know, feature sections. And then feature one headline, sub headline, copy for tile one, image for tile one, copy for tile two, image like. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:That's the only way I've gotten to organize it and then I hand it over to the designer and I beg. I said please just give me a page to look at visually and then I can go the next round of oh, we this does make sense. This is too much. This is too thin.
Brian Casel:Yep. Yeah, man. I love the I I feel like the job to be done framework can be applied to so many different things. Obviously, it's usually for like product customer research. But I I just like to think of like every element of the project.
Brian Casel:There's a job to be done. Like what's the job of the homepage? What's the job of the hero section? What's the job of Just do that. If you start with that, it has to just do this one thing and that like like on this new site on on Fullstack Founder.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I I hate saying that I got the .co by the way. I wish I got the.com.
Jordan Gal:Sure. It's everyone.
Brian Casel:And I and I put in the the inquiry up to to whoever owns it. And I don't know. I I put out a a low 4 figure number and they were like, yeah. The number that we're even willing to consider is 400 times that number. So Yeah.
Brian Casel:That's Yep. But anyway, the Like on on this site, my thing starting off like when I just opened up a blank Notion doc, it was okay. Homepage. And homepage is where all the energy is on this. It's like hero, the whole purpose of the hero is email capture.
Brian Casel:And then, next section has to be like me and my message. I've got a photo of myself and sort of like a letter. A short copy written letter that like defines here's the journey you're on, here here's what we're here to do. We're we're we're becoming full stack founders
Jordan Gal:that style.
Brian Casel:We got your signature. Yeah. A little on the internet. But You
Jordan Gal:you are part of the
Brian Casel:Yeah. And and I'm and the words are really like aimed at like resonating with like why you should care about this whole concept of full stack founder. And then and then the only other thing on the homepage is like, look this is a content business. So here is the most recent content. Some three three recent videos.
Brian Casel:Here you go. That's it. Okay. Home base.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Cool. Yeah. My challenge seems to be that the the homepage, not that hard. Well, it's it's not that it's not that hard.
Jordan Gal:We just don't wanna overload it. So there really isn't that much going on there. We've been doing this for a while so it's kind of easy to talk about what what we have and what we wanna show. The hard part that around the homepage anyway was this new offering. This new version of the product.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Like with it? Do
Jordan Gal:you Yes. Yes. How not to confuse because I mean the the the deal that we talked to this week that looks like it's on track, they want the checkout. They want the full thing.
Brian Casel:Yeah.
Jordan Gal:And that's how they found us. That's what they got excited about and that's what they wanna buy. And so we don't wanna get in the way of that, but we also so doing that without diluting the message too much is is the challenge. The the message that I'm kinda gone with is like turn your checkout into a revenue channel using your checkout or ours. It's kinda like doesn't matter to us because all the stuff we do makes your revenue generate new revenue.
Jordan Gal:At least right that's the uniting theme is we just help you make more money on your checkout. More revenue, higher average order value, better conversion rate and then we have different things that do that.
Brian Casel:That line worked for me the first time I heard it like you know drive more revenue using your checkout or ours like that's Yeah. That's pretty cool.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. So then we have like buckets where we have an average order value bucket and a conversion bucket. The conversion bucket relates to our checkout.
Nathan Barry:The Mhmm.
Jordan Gal:Average order value bucket refers to it could features are on either one. Your checkout or ours.
Nathan Barry:Mhmm.
Brian Casel:It's so easy for like Especially like marketers have this thing like, oh just test it. Just just just do it. Just test one version against the other. It's like, if if only it were that easy, you know? Mhmm.
Brian Casel:Because I I I was about to do the the same thing but but I was about to say something along the lines of, oh just design a version that goes all in on the marketing tools version of Rally and maybe have a backup version for like the current the the full checkout version of Rally and and really lean into one or the other like do do a month of one and then a month of the other and then compare compare leads or whatever, compare response. But like, it is never that clean and it certainly isn't one month each. I mean, And and your sales cycles are so so much longer that like you can't you can't test and get results within thirty days. So it's like, yeah. Don't listen to that advice.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. In this case, no. The the way I'm solving for that is with solutions pages. So one of the pages talks only about, you know, using the features on your checkout.
Brian Casel:Mhmm.
Jordan Gal:So at least they're like, that's what the salesperson would send. That's what the SDR sends. That's what talks about that specifically where we can point people to and post it on LinkedIn and then it it's selling that version of the product in that context. Yeah. So a LinkedIn ad that talks about that can go to a page and it's not muddled and it's not confusing.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And you can see this with like, look at any product page that any paid ad leads to. It's never their homepage. It's you know, it's always some version of their site that probably looks like their homepage but the words are aimed at whatever you clicked on. You know?
Jordan Gal:Well, Friday. Yep. Bit bit of a shorter episode for us.
Brian Casel:Hey. We got on there.
Jordan Gal:One more discovery call, see if we're a good match for this this brand. And then we
Brian Casel:I gotta get off this call and then I'm doing another one of these like onboarding demo calls with a Clarity Flow customer today which I'm happy to do. They seem like a great coach, great business to have, but man, this is something that I would love to hand off to someone. Someone can come work work with me on Clarity Flow.
Nathan Barry:So Cool.
Jordan Gal:Record it. That's what we do a
Brian Casel:lot of that. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:Yep. I'm in. Alright, brother. Good to see you. Have a great long weekend.
Brian Casel:Later, folks.
