[46] Family Business
Alright. This is Bootstrap Web episode 46. This is the podcast for you, the founder who learns by doing as you're bootstrapping your business online. And we've got an interesting show for you today. We're talking about family businesses, the good, the bad, the ugly.
Speaker 1:And we've got Matt Maderos with us, founder of matreport.com and the brand new conductorplugin.com. He's joining us today. I, as always, am Jordan.
Speaker 2:And I'm Brian.
Speaker 1:And, Matt, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Gentlemen, it's a it's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So we usually start things off with a little bit of an update.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Awesome. So Conductor plug in is going really well. We launched officially probably like thirty days ago. And actually, was submitted one of the questions that you guys so thoughtfully answered in the last one of the last few episodes.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 2:So I did sort of a soft launch and then just did organic promotion. And it's actually quite interesting. The question that I had submitted was, you know, should I do this sort of elaborate promotional launch, like give away a laptop and, you know, an iPad Air and all that fun stuff and drive all kinds of traffic? Or do I just do it naturally and hope that the product takes off? And it's actually doing really well.
Speaker 2:We've got a lot more organic blog posts popping up of people reviewing the plugin, writing testimonials, saying that they've been using it on their projects. A lot more than some of the sort of flashy, more promotional folks in my arena, which I haven't seen any real organic stuff cropping up from them. So it's it's definitely an interesting, interesting point of view launching it that way, and I've been pretty
Speaker 3:happy with it. Yeah. And so, you know, for those who aren't familiar, you know, base you're in the WordPress world. Right? Your Conductor plugin is basically a plugin for WordPress.
Speaker 3:It from my understanding, it it helps it's kinda like a CMS plugin that you can work with any theme. It lets you rearrange content and and things like that. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like content management, but for the front end. Right? So you you you manage your content in the back end, but on the front end, it helps you sort of shape how that content looks, where it goes, how much of it, and all that fun stuff. Very cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was I
Speaker 1:was super interested as soon as I saw it because I'm I'm not a technical guy, so I've kinda fallen in love with with Elegant Themes, Divi Theme, and they have a lot of that, front end functionality for someone like myself that, you know, that makes it pretty easy, but it's a bit rigid, and so I still end up needing some development help. So looking at Conductor plugin, I think that's, I think it's always interesting for you guys in the WordPress community, to figure out how to translate that over to the people who are your target because it they're not the super high end devs like you guys. It's more the guys like me who see WordPress as a tool, and then they need all these plugins for help.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. I actually, one of our first customers bought it, and they're actually using it with Divvy because it does so
Speaker 1:much
Speaker 2:other stuff that Divvy doesn't do. Gotcha. And it's actually a great pairing, which is awesome.
Speaker 3:Cool. And so, you know, speaking of launching, right, and and getting those that that early traction and everything, in our previous episode, we talked all about building an audience. And, Matt, you've you've actually grown a a a pretty huge audience, especially within the word WordPress community now. You run Matt Report, and a number of other podcasts related to WordPress and business. How has your, audience stuff and audience building helped, like, spur on the launch of this new product?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that's that's one of the greatest things. And I I started the audience started building an audience almost three years ago, and I did it in two different flavors. I did it for, the personal brand, like, which is the Matt Report, and that allowed me to meet other agencies, other businesses in the WordPress space. It really helped sort of grow my opportunity personally, but also for business development.
Speaker 2:And then we started growing our audience at the same time for the actual product space. So we started doing a lot of WordPress plugins and theme reviews two years ago, two and a half years ago, doing video for YouTube, video and audio, and ran a couple different shows. We're almost at 5,000 subscribers, which isn't a whole heck of a lot, but it's it's pretty good for for the word for WordPress.
Speaker 3:It's about 4,900 more subscribers than I have.
Speaker 2:So Right. So that that really helped. And I really I really played the long game on that and really just, you know, dug our heels in in in building content or producing content and building the audience. So it's it's great to launch this stuff and not have to worry about, gee, do I have an email list? Gee, do I have a YouTube audience that I can demo our product to?
Speaker 2:So that's all, that's been a tremendous help to us. Awesome. And yeah, it's been great.
Speaker 3:Cool. You know, again, you know, the theme for today, we're gonna get into, like, family business because, Matt, you've partnered with your your father and Jordan, you you as well and your brothers and everything. Before we get into that, I I don't know. I mean, Jordan, did you wanna do, like, quick updates on our end? Or
Speaker 1:I mean, my my really quick update that is of any interest is I have kinda finally turned the corner on, okay, I have a lot of these different things that I want to pursue with Cardhook, and now I am starting to hire people. And so that process is always interesting because it's this, you know, as a bootstrapper, you you have these limited resources, so you have to think where should I put money, what's gonna give me the best bang for the buck, But how do I right. If I if I wanna hire an SEO company to start on that front, I don't wanna go super low end because that never works that well, but you can't go high end. So you kinda have to play this game, and that's kinda what I've been doing over the past week for SEO, for PPC, for, blog posts, and content management in in general and development. So a lot of, talking and hiring people, and it's got me really excited about the amount of work that's gonna get done that isn't currently getting done and that I am not gonna be the one that does it.
Speaker 1:So that that's really you know, I'm looking forward to give an update in a few weeks on how those things are starting to to progress.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Totally. That's that's a big step. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How about you, Brian? Any any updates?
Speaker 3:You know, still still kind of in in launch mode here for for the productized course, but, you know, again, I'm just glad that that's, for the most part, behind me now. There is, like, one more day left of, like, the launch special and everything. That ends on October 31. But, you know, now I'm kind of picking up all those loose ends that that popped up while I was so focused on doing the coursework. All this other stuff was, like, put off to the side.
Speaker 3:And now now in this, like, October, I'm kinda, like, catching up on, like, just little random things, like like updating to Mac OS, you know, Yosemite. Right? And then, like like, I wanted to switch over to iCloud Drive instead of Dropbox because that's been slowing my whole world down. And, you know, just like little things like that that I didn't wanna get, you know, sucked into last month while I was so focused on working on the course. And then I'm also now, like, starting to shift my gears back into restaurant engine and hotel propeller.
Speaker 3:Got a whole bunch of big push things that I wanna do in November and December. I wanna start really getting into, a webinar strategy with with that, develop the product a little bit, maybe come out with a couple of new themes, tweak some of the pricing things. So I've got a whole list of little things that I wanna start tweaking. And I'm I like to organize my to do list, you know, by month. And now that I'm at the October, I'm I'm organizing.
Speaker 3:Alright. What is the number one priority for November, and what will be put on hold until December? Just try to list that stuff out. At the same time, I am trying to, you know, take it easy because I had a pretty grueling schedule for the last four weeks, so I'm trying to lay off for this week. But yeah.
Speaker 1:Good. Always always healthy.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:And on the iTunes front, we don't have any new five star reviews, but we do have an important update. You can now give reviews directly from your iOS, iTunes app. And so you now officially have no excuses left to not give us some five star reviews.
Speaker 3:That's right. So so get busy. Stop driving right now. Pull over.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Don't do it while driving.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know that. Now I can steal that from my my podcast.
Speaker 3:Well, I just I just stole it from someone else. I I forgot who it was. Maybe
Speaker 1:Innovation in in in the modern age.
Speaker 3:Maybe it was trapped with kids or something. So so, yeah, I mean, let's let's go right into it, fellas. So family business, like, how did this come up? I think both of you, you know, you you work with your with your family members. So, Matt, I mean, you work with your father.
Speaker 3:Right? Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that that's an interesting story. We well, my grandfather started a a dealership car dealership, I don't even know, fifty sixty years ago. So my father and his three brothers grew up in that business all of their lives, and subsequently so did I. We got out of the dealership business about four years before General Motors went bankrupt.
Speaker 2:At the end, we were a GM dealership, so it was Chevy and Cadillac, and just before that. So that was probably about seven, eight years ago, roughly. And so I grew up in the in the in the business. Right? I grew up in the family business.
Speaker 2:I started by pulling weeds, then I was upgraded to washing cars, and then I was upgraded again to delivering parts. So it was it was just a beautiful, beautiful learning process from the ground up, literally. Made my way to sales, and you know, then we helped my father run the business for a little while before we get out of it. And then he was always into photography. I mean, was a photographer for, you know, for ever since I can remember.
Speaker 2:And I went to school for it after he retired from the dealership. And one thing led to another, he started taking photographs here in the studio for folks. I think his first client was, his first like business client was a jeweler, a local jeweler. And she wanted some photos, and she said, oh, can you do a website for me? And he said, no, but my son, I think my son knows how to do it.
Speaker 2:And like that there snowballed into an agency, a product company, and that was like the that was a genesis of it all because he couldn't just sit back and say, nah, don't do that. I just take photos. He just like, let's start a company together. So I already we already had the experience working together from the dealership, good and bad, and then brought that over to the website, the agency side, and it's been a great pairing ever since.
Speaker 3:That's that's awesome. I mean, this web industry, it's so rare to see like a father son partnership. You see a lot of, husband, wife. You see a lot of you know, some sometimes brothers and and and things like that. But, you know, the generation gap in in an industry like the web, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 3:Right? So I'm I'm curious, you know, so you came from the family business in in the car dealership, but then were you always, like, on board or or or in your plans for your career or whatever, like, were you always on board with with, like, partnering with your father, or did you what was your track at that point? As the car dealership was winding down, what were you thinking was your next step?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And actually, after I graduated college, worked at an ISP, internet service provider locally. So I did that for quite some time. And as Jordan probably knows, like you're never really out of the family business. So I was working there.
Speaker 2:I was a product lead. Like I was one of the head guys at this company, but then, oh, by the way, we're shorter sales guy. Can you come in on Sunday to help sell cars? So I was never really away from that. But my plan was always to start a business.
Speaker 2:Start my own entrepreneurial business. And I don't know if I've ever really told this on the air, but I started on any podcast or even my own. I started what is now known as Dropbox with a partner, and he sort of just like flaked out halfway through. And we were building Dropbox before Dropbox was Dropbox. So my story could have been totally different.
Speaker 2:But as we all
Speaker 3:You mean like an app that like works the same way as Dropbox?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Cool. Like, we were we were like, we were building that.
Speaker 1:Like, was looking forward. I thought Drew Houston screwed you over or something.
Speaker 2:Like we like we were like we were building that, and there were probably a thousand other people building it at the same time as us, and as we all know, it's execution and all that fun stuff. Luck. And my partner flaked out, but we had seed money. You know, we had some people who were ready to invest in us, and that sort of just tanked. So I was always it was always into it, into wanting to build it.
Speaker 2:And the company I was working for was a three way partnership between friends, which turned super ugly, which is even worse than a family business, because you don't even trust each other when you're at that level. So that was starting to go south, and I told him, hey, look guys, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a step back and spin up my own business, and two of them were were fine with that, and I ended up exiting that and starting this stuff up.
Speaker 3:Very nice.
Speaker 1:Very interesting. Yeah. It's definitely not a straight path when when it comes to family businesses.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Jordan, like for our listeners who don't really know your history, but you know, before Carhook and all that stuff, so Right. What what were you doing before that?
Speaker 1:So I've got a a lot of the, classic immigrant type of a story. You know, I came over I came over. I was brought over by my parents at age six from Israel. And my my father came here. We used to live on a kibbutz in Israel, which is essentially a commune.
Speaker 1:So it's I mean, it's very socialist, the the structure, and it worked, and it was a huge help for Israel on to get it off the ground. But as you know, it's like any socialism, not to get too into politics, but the first generation of believers, it works. The next generation starts to fall apart. And one generation after that, the whole thing falls apart because human beings are human beings and they look out for themselves. And so that's a lot of the story of what's happening in Israel now, but lot of that informed my father's take.
Speaker 1:When he came to The US, he was very determined to work for himself. So he came right to New York and, you know, I think he worked for an Israeli guy for about a year. And then once he was able to kinda go out on his own, he started a property tax reduction business while I was probably seventh grade, sixth, seventh grade. So I started working with him then. Right?
Speaker 1:So anytime he needed computer issues, help database, data entry, I started off going over to the county building and, like, writing down, you know, how many bedrooms this house has and how many square feet and then bring it back home and, you know, inputting it into the database. So that progressed into Excel sheets and then help with financial models and help with merging for marketing pieces. So I was very, very familiar with it, and the business grew up and, you know, put us through college. And so the plan internally in the family was always, okay. This is a springboard, this company, and then you guys are responsible for, you know, doing bigger things.
Speaker 1:And that's that's always how we saw it, but because of the nature of coming over with just your immediate family and my the rest of my family was in Israel, we had a very, very tight knit bond. So our kind of our dream assumption we always operate under the assumption that we wanted, if possible, to work together. So I went to college. Right? I went after Michigan.
Speaker 1:I went to Wall Street and hated it. And a lot of the reasons why I hated it was incompatible with it is because I watched my father growing up, not that it was easy, the opposite. It was tremendously difficult for him to establish his business, but it also gave you the opportunity to, a, be your own boss, and, b, if you are good, you can make big money. And that is what we always saw as a family, as financial freedom. That's the whole point of coming to America.
Speaker 1:I think that's why I have difficulty being satisfied with any type of mediocrity because it's like, we didn't come all the way over here for for that. We came over here for something great.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, it's interesting how you go from, like, working at a like, a investment firm. Right? And
Speaker 1:Yes. Salamis McBarnney.
Speaker 3:So, know, you go from that, and even though, you know, I'm sure you're doing really well there, it was you lack that control. You know, you're not you're not your own boss, but you you come from an upbringing and and your family, and you see your your father who is the boss and has control and and of of of your destiny, and I guess it's that, like, you you just wanted that freedom.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I also saw it as strategic. I also saw it as the chances of me becoming a multimillionaire working for corporate America is unlikely. Of course, back then, I didn't know what would happen to finance over the last ten years. But, you know, looking back to who cares at that time, that's what made sense to me.
Speaker 1:So after the first year at Salmon, I left and started working with my with my dad. And that's when we started taking the business and basically just injecting technology and efficiency into it to make things easier and a little bit of modern copywriting and direct marketing, and the business kinda grew up quickly. And from there, that's what allowed me and this is in partnership with my father, so it's this this trust relationship. And like you said, for good and bad, it's not all good, but it's worth it. You know?
Speaker 1:Getting to know a family member every day in in that setting exposes you to the fact that they're human, exposes them to the fact that you're human, and that's not always pretty, but you also get to know the person at such a different level than other people get the opportunity to that it's worth it even even if it's hard.
Speaker 3:You know, so what I'm curious about from both of you guys and and then, I mean, Jordan, you know, the other part of your story, after your your father's business, you and your brothers partnered up on on some ecommerce stuff. Right?
Speaker 1:Right. So working hard with my dad and growing the business is what allowed me to say, okay, dad. I've worked here for four years. Now it's my turn. Give me a little bit of the money that I earned for the business and let me go start my own thing.
Speaker 1:And that's what that was the political website that didn't work out and that morphed into the ecommerce thing. That did work out and we sold it and then I went back to the family business and we gave it a second go and that didn't work.
Speaker 3:Right. But even like the ecommerce stuff, that was in partnership with your two brothers. Right? Yes. So, like, what I'm kind of curious from both of you guys is, like, you kinda came up in the family business as kids and you're just it was like the natural next step.
Speaker 3:But, like, compare that to a a typical partnership with friends or with colleagues, you know, not family, every there's terms. You gotta set up your partnership. There's we're agreeing to these to this situation. It is is the same structure there when you're working with family? And, like, how do you how do you structure that, like, from the get go as you as you as you're just putting the new company together?
Speaker 3:Or as you're just getting promoted into a partnership position?
Speaker 1:And Matt, what's what what's what's your situation? You want me to go?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Let me go first. So, you know, it's it's I I think the most important thing with a family owned company is a certain factor of trust, which I don't know if it exists in every family business, but it certainly does in ours. So on paper, the accountant and for tax purposes, there's president, there's director, but at the end of the day, do we have an agreement that says you're 49 and I'm 51? No.
Speaker 2:My father knows that he wants to build, he has said it before, and it was always his plan with the dealership, just like my grandfather, his father before him, was he wants to build a business and leave it for me. And that's his only goal. His goal isn't to exit and retire and get a certain amount of shares. I'm not looking to exit and sell and move on to the next thing. So it is very much just a handshake between father and son and say, Here's what it is.
Speaker 2:And that's how we've structured it. We've never really formally sat down and said, aside from payroll, what you're going to earn and what I'm going to earn. And there there is nothing like that for for better or for worse.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm really interested to ask one question, Matt. Do you have kids?
Speaker 2:I don't. I just got engaged and getting married next year.
Speaker 1:Very nice. Congratulations on the engagement, and I won't you know, it's pointless for me to say anything about your situation, but I will tell you, our family operated under the same situation for a long time. And what what blew that up and nothing negative in terms of the relationships, but what that what made that arrangement untenable was kids. Because that's that's when the whole thing shifted where it was like, oh, I'm okay making, you know, 100 k a year and that's cool because the business is making plenty. And as long as the business is making money, then the family is making money and that's cool.
Speaker 1:Once the kid came into the picture, things became much more I don't even know. It's I don't know how to describe it, but all of a sudden, it became a situation where it was like, I can't just hope that as long as the business grows, it will work out for me later. I kinda need to make sure it's working out for me. And I and then and then I I know when I had a kid, my ambition level turned unhealthy. It turned ferocious.
Speaker 1:And because of that so it was it's a little more complicated for us because we have we have three brothers and a dad. And so the second your ambition level start to not be in alignment, things get weird.
Speaker 3:Did your brothers your brothers have kids too, Jordan?
Speaker 1:My older brother had kids at the time. My younger brother does not have any kids yet. My I mean, we have since we have since split up, which was after the second time we came together, after we sold the ecommerce business. We said, okay. Let's go to the next level.
Speaker 1:And in order to get to the next level, we need to establish a much more rigid system. And we tried that, and it didn't work because there was it was impossible for us to operate under a hierarchy. We gave me the the try as, like, CEO as, okay. You tell us what needs to get done, and it didn't work, which is before anything got weird in terms of relationships because we're crazy about each other, we said let's just break this up now. And from the second we broke it up, every single person's individual situation started started getting better.
Speaker 3:So I mean, how about, like, aside from, the financial aspect of everything, like, how do you split up or how does, that dynamic work of, like, collaborating and splitting up roles and who's in charge, who's who's managing this part of the business, who's managing that, like, is that any different working with family members than it is working with, like, coworkers or or non family partners?
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes and no. Yes in in terms of you can't make me do. You can't make me you can't give me a role that I hate because I won't accept it. It's not acceptable.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, you know, and if you work for someone, get hired to do a job, you need to do that job or you get fired. Right? Pretty straightforward. In a family business, you can come to them and say, guys, I really don't like this side of the business. Do do one of you like it more?
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm better at this, and I, you know, I thought I liked it, but I didn't. So there's more of of an exchange and kinda coming to a you can work things out more easily.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't remember witnessing it because I was too young, but when so my father had three brothers, and then my grandfather was running the dealership. He was the head of the dealership. They brought in a team, and this is just from what I remember. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, I was told when I was a kid. Like, they brought in a team and evaluated my father and the three brothers to who would be the next in line, right, to take over the the presidential role. Right? Sounds so much greater than what it really is. But they evaluated them, ran the tests, and my father was the one who ended up being the president of the company, which did not sit well with one of his brothers.
Speaker 2:And he split off under the same brand name, and started another dealership, a Jeep and Chrysler dealership at the time. And I just remember from being really young, like that whole scenario like playing out, and meetings, and lawyers, and things were just getting ugly, right, back then. I don't remember the specifics of it. But it was always interesting to see, like when we were getting out of the dealership, things would be, I would see my father get furious with my uncles. And that's like really when I grew up, when I saw him in the way he reacted to them not putting in a 100, a 150 like he was, you know, mentally, emotionally, financially, know, that was that was certainly an experience.
Speaker 2:And that really excelled just my experience in running a business and what it really takes. And it's a different kind of thing. It's an emotional thing versus where if it's just an employee, it's like you're you're out. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're either
Speaker 2:in or
Speaker 3:you're out. Yeah. You know, it's I mean, it's interesting because like, I have a brother. He's two years younger than me, and and we've been pretty close. Like our like, he's, you know, I consider him like my best friend.
Speaker 3:You know, definitely one of my best friends. He's best man at my wedding and everything. And the interesting thing about brothers, and I think any any brother can kinda relate to this, is you can it's and I have a lot of other close friends, but we can me and me and Jeff can get into, like, heated arguments sometimes. But we know that, like, it's we have free reign. Like, we can just say whatever the hell we want to each other.
Speaker 3:Right. And we can be and we can be completely pissed at each other one day. We know that tomorrow we're just gonna talk again.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:You know? But anyone else, even one of my closest best friends, they're not they're not blood. So if you there is a line that you can cross where it's like, alright. That was the end of that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know? And and that's just not gonna happen with family. So Yeah. I and I guess when when you take that into a business situation, it's like you can be totally open and in that relationship, but then it can actually have it it can get to another level where I guess it can get kinda ugly. But may maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3:I mean, maybe that I'm maybe I'm, like, putting too much of a negative light on this. Like, the what are, like, the what are the benefits of Yeah. As you start the business and get into it and then ongoing, like, what's different about working with family members that's maybe an an advantage over working with someone else?
Speaker 2:The oh, go ahead, Jordan.
Speaker 1:I think I I wish we had started off by saying something to the effect of regardless of what gets said in this conversation.
Speaker 2:Right. Exactly. Right.
Speaker 1:It is it is not all bad, and we're we we love our families. And what we're trying to do in this conversation is drop the guard a little bit and be honest about the whole the whole picture. Right? So I know I walk around with the full knowledge that I I stand on the shoulders of, you know, of my giant my my dad. Excuse me.
Speaker 1:So I think it's not it shouldn't go without saying. We we should have kinda started off with that. Right. So it's just like that. Because I know I know my siblings and my dad are gonna listen to this, so I think it's important for me to to just say that out loud.
Speaker 2:So is my father.
Speaker 1:Right. Exactly. So the advantages. For I think it's it depends on your family dynamic and depends on your personalities and how you grew up and all that. For for me, it's the it's The Us versus the world thing, and that's that's colored my view of the world, you know, and will continue to color my perspective on the world forever.
Speaker 1:That's just how I grew up, and we said, okay. There's this big giant world, and it's great, and there are a lot of great people in it. But when you look around the house and you see your blood, these are the people that are more important than everybody else. And as we get married and as we grow our family, then our circle grows, but it's still the people in that circle now with wives and and and kids and all that. And that's the most important thing, and the goal, is very motivating.
Speaker 1:To protect those people, to put them in a good situation, to make sure they have a nice life, to make sure they're not struggling, to make sure that they're not lacking for things. Like, I can't imagine a situation. It won't there won't be a situation in my lifetime where I am a multimillionaire and my my one of my brothers is working a corporate job for $50 a year. It just it won't happen. And having that knowledge gives you it gives you this confidence that you carry around.
Speaker 1:Like, I'm gonna be fine no matter what. I have people in my corner that are willing to kill for me, and they want me to succeed. So it's almost like a self confidence thing, I would say is the biggest advantage outside of just like the monetary, oh, dad, can I borrow 20 k because this thing is working, and I I think it's time to inject money into it? You know, that's one thing. But I think the confidence that comes from working together with people that you know care about you no matter what, I think that's the biggest advantage that I've I've taken from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I couldn't have said it better myself, especially like the the feeling of you know that somebody else has your back and you're going for the same goal, you kind of understand it just like the person sitting next to you. For me specifically, like on a technical level, like how it works in the web business, My father being able to walk into a room for certain clients validates us as a business. Now, I don't know how old you are, Jordan, but you look like Superman. Right?
Speaker 2:So when you walk into a room, people are probably gonna be like, Oh, dude doesn't matter. I walk in, people are looking at me like, who's this baby faced guy?
Speaker 1:They're not gonna listen to him. Know?
Speaker 2:Well, I walk into like a lawyer's, you know, an attorney or a firm, or, you know, just a corporate setting, and they're like, yeah, I get it. You're the tech guy. I don't understand. You you're just gonna throw a bunch of keywords at me, and I'm not gonna really listen to you. My father walks in, seasoned veteran of being in business, and they get it, and they listen to him because he's much more experienced than I.
Speaker 2:So for our web business, that really validates a lot of our clients. And that's how we split up roles, right? I'll take the more technically savvy client, and I'll do negotiations. He will take the ones that are much more slower, because I don't have the patience. Like, I can't talk to somebody and say, this is the web, this is internet, this is Facebook, like, this is why you need web.
Speaker 2:My father has a totally different approach to that, and he enjoys those conversations, right? Because he's been selling all of his life. So that's how we split up the roles, and it's good. It's a it's just a good cushion to have, right? To know that you can rely on somebody else to have the conversations you don't wanna have, but still be still be somebody who's bringing in revenue.
Speaker 2:Right? And doing business development for for areas you'll never go into. So that's the more technical benefit for us, for me anyway, in this situation.
Speaker 3:Very cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll second that. We we call that the the the gray hair effect. Yep. When, you know, when we you know, I'm I'm actually still a partner in a part of the business, and my father does the negotiations. Right?
Speaker 1:So we we represent homeowners to lower their property taxes. So what happens is you end up negotiating with the town appraiser, the town assessor. And so we don't go into those meetings. My dad goes into those meetings because he sits across the table and it's just a very different dynamic than if I sat across table with my, you know, my button down on and okay. Let's let's get this done.
Speaker 1:I mean, he looks at it's just a very different thing and that's yeah. That's that's a good way to divvy up the roles. Yep.
Speaker 3:Very cool.
Speaker 1:So Most efficiently.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, I mean, like, what what about the other side of this thing? Like, home from work, dinner time, Thanksgiving, holidays. Are you guys talking business at at the Thanksgiving table? Or, like, how does that work?
Speaker 1:My my wife and I my wife and I have a joke. I'm an Israeli New York Jew. Okay? And she's a Connecticut WASP. So we have a lot of comedy in in in terms of family dynamics.
Speaker 1:So our joke is at her family, they talked about everything at dinner except for money and politics. And at my dinner table, the only things we talked about were money and politics. So live you know, working in a family business, I think it is impossible not to have that be the topic of conversation. And now when I don't see my family as much and we hang out with the kids, we have to consciously tell ourselves, do not talk about work. We're hanging out for two hours.
Speaker 1:Leave it alone. But you do constantly, talk about it and think about it. I think the biggest disadvantage for me, at least that that stays at the top of my mind, as as as we parted ways, with with the ambition kicking in. And I'm I'm risk loving, and, you know, it's like my older brother is more risk averse. So I got into a situate situation where I felt like I couldn't do and make the decisions that that I felt I needed to do for myself, for my family, and for for my finances.
Speaker 1:So you you started being constrained toward the middle, toward the safe, and toward the the average Because my my older brother couldn't be as risk averse and careful and and, you know, long term thinking that he wanted to be, and I couldn't be as risk loving and more ballsy. So you kinda end up going toward the middle, and no one was happy. So that I think that was the biggest disadvantage that you have to chart your path according to other people's values and risk tolerance and finances and all these other things, so you're not doing what you would normally be doing out there in the world. You're not as mean and hungry and nasty and willing to take chances. You're just not yourself because you're working with people that you care about that you are not willing to jeopardize relationships or this and that.
Speaker 1:You can't say, you know what? I'll be better off if I go start a com competitor business to you. So see, I'm gonna go start the same business because I think I can do better than you. You won't do that. You you can't
Speaker 2:do it.
Speaker 1:So I think that's the biggest disadvantage, just the the yeah. The constraints on your on your options.
Speaker 2:Yeah. In terms of the business, you know, bleeding into the into the family life, I don't know it any other way. Although I I I'm told by my future wife that I should start learning a new way
Speaker 3:Start talking about other things.
Speaker 2:Thanksgivings and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, growing up in the dealership, I mean, that's all it was. Like every Thanksgiving, every Christmas party, the weekends at church and things like that, it was just like, you know, did we do anything this weekend? Did we sell any cars?
Speaker 2:And and really it's the same thing when I see my father after hours. It's the same thing like, you know, how's that project going? How's that contract coming along? That kind of thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Very tough for us to to turn it off, so we do very much, keep it going, you know, to to add another variable to to the mix. My my mom actually does the books for us too, so she's in and out of here every day.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:She knows she knows
Speaker 1:she knows the numbers.
Speaker 2:Right. She knows the numbers and, you know, and every day she you know, every week when she hands me my check, it's still like she's giving me money on Christmas day. Like, here you go. Like, this is just for you. Like, no.
Speaker 2:Like, I've earned this.
Speaker 3:Like Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is not a gift.
Speaker 1:That's that's a tricky thing. Yeah. It's a tricky thing.
Speaker 3:You know, it's it's like on my side of this, it's you know, I I go home, like, when I get together, like, with my parents and family and and even, like, friends and everything, it's like, how's work going? Like, what are you what are you working on? How are things going? How is that new thing that you were launching? How did that go?
Speaker 3:And I forever, I've I've felt uncomfortable and probably increasingly more uncomfortable in the last few years just talking about what I do to you know, outside of, like, talking in, like, my mastermind group and I mean, I talk a lot to my wife, but she I probably bore her to death with this stuff. You know, the you know, it's because so many people just don't even understand what I do, what what we do for a living. If you're not in the business of working on the web and building businesses, and if you're not an entrepreneur yourself, which most of my friends and and family are not, some I mean, okay. So, like, my father is self employed. He's been an attorney for, you know, for many years and my grandfather's both own their own businesses.
Speaker 3:But most of the people at the dinner table at Thanksgiving and all the all my friends, you know, that I hang out with outside of the web are they they all work in jobs. And all they know about me is, like, it has something to do with the web and the Internet. And I think he used to make web I think he used to make websites and now something about restaurants, like, who who even knows anymore?
Speaker 2:You know?
Speaker 3:Like like, that's basically like, nobody has any understanding. And and I'm kind of, like, fine with that. I'm kind of like, yeah. No. I don't wanna talk about work.
Speaker 3:You know? What's new with you? You know? Yeah. So I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's it's always been a kind of like an awkward thing. But then you get you get some friends and family who are starting to do their own freelance thing or are starting to get, like, ask questions about, like, how should I set up this website? And, you know, I I have loads of things to share with them, and I try to share a lot with them, but there's only so much that you can get across in a in, like, a cocktail conversation. You know? So I don't know.
Speaker 3:I I just always found that to be a a a challenging, like, line to to balance like that. You know? But I I guess that also kinda gets into another question that I had listed here. Taking on friends and family as clients. So not partnering, but act actually, like, them hiring you to do a job.
Speaker 3:Any thoughts on that for for you guys?
Speaker 1:Do you have any experience with that, Matt?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So my uncle who still is in the dealership, still has a dealership, one of our first clients was just redoing his website, and that was interesting. That was one of those things where you get the person who is constantly asking you questions, and it's like the proverbial scope creep client, right? They just keep coming back to you. They're asking this, why can't we do this?
Speaker 2:Can we move this? And then you have those same heated conversations like, well, what do you expect from us? You only paid us $3,000 to build this. We're not gonna move mountains for you, and you're not gonna get leads from cars.com just automatically. Like you have to spend money in ads.
Speaker 2:So it's very interesting. It's a very interesting situation. That was the only one we've ever done. And you know, it now it's after a few It's just different. Guess I'm trying to think about how we sort of, we didn't end it, but we're still there.
Speaker 2:But we just had one big argument, all of us. We walked away, and then the next day it was back to work, and then that was it. And everyone's fine. It's like you were saying, Brian, you can have those arguments, but at the end of the day, or the next day anyway, everything's fine. And it's like reset.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, it's out on
Speaker 3:the table.
Speaker 1:See you next weekend. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly how it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I I think I've had an interesting experience with family as clients. Now, I I I love it. I think it's, I think everybody loves it, and and it's because it's it's on everyone's own terms. Right?
Speaker 1:So at some point, it was it was too wrapped up and it was too I kept seeing it as a time suck taking away, you know, my focus away from things I wanted to focus on. And now I have a situation where I'm really happy to do the work because it brings me a safe income, and that allows me to continue focusing on on growing these other things. And at the same time, my my brother and my dad who are still they still now they run their own tax reduction businesses and they work together and collaborate just different geographic areas and all that. They're, like, ecstatic to pay me because they like they they the money's gonna go somewhere. They're gonna pay somebody to get the work done, and they'd rather it be me.
Speaker 1:And they know that I'm gonna do a better job than anyone else because I've done it longer, and I care more. So now all a sudden, it's this where once it was a very frustrating dynamic, now it's like this great thing of like, oh, you got more work for me. Great. And you do this and that you they already know, that I'm familiar with everything. So I think it can be tricky, but it can also be great as long as everyone feels, you know, fair in the whole thing.
Speaker 1:I'm happy with the the money I'm getting from it. They're very happy with the work that they're getting. There's enough distance in terms of business and geography now that it's not like all intertwined. So I think I think it can work. And a lot of times in family businesses, once you get an inside look, you know, there really isn't anyone better that understands the business as much as someone who's been in it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So
Speaker 1:so it makes the most sense to continue working with that person.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Very cool. I mean, like, in in my case, I've had a couple of like, I've done a few, like years ago, did website jobs for family members and who, you know, who kinda do their own thing and they needed a website and and things like that. And I I I and and also for for, like, friends here and there. And, you know, you want to help out your friends and family whenever you can.
Speaker 3:But then at the same time, you know, I I've always felt uncomfortable with doing that. I always felt nervous when family and friends come to me and say, like, oh, we know that you do websites. So, like, we're gonna hire you, and it's it's gonna be awesome. And, you know, I'm always thinking to myself, like, man, you know, I'm already swamped with other client work. And, yes, I understand you're happy to to pay me for the job, but I don't wanna charge you the same rates that I charge other clients.
Speaker 3:But at the same time, it's it's the the timing, and then it's also like that like you guys said, that scope creep or the or just the client relationship. I don't wanna have that kind of client relationship with with you, my friend or my or my family member. Like, it's it it takes it to a different I don't know. It's just like a different dynamic, you know. It's especially when when there are things that they don't truly understand about how things work.
Speaker 2:I had a friend come to me, it's funny because a lot of my friends, few of my friends now are actually getting into starting their own businesses, and one in particular, a couple years ago, he started his own CrossFit gym. And he actually partnered with another the guy that he was going to at a different city for CrossFit. So he came to me and he said, Can you build me a website? We're just starting out. We have very little money.
Speaker 2:You know, the typical song and dance. So I met with him in his business bar. I met with him twice, explained to him what I was going to do, do a theme and launch a WordPress site, no custom design. We're just going to launch it. I'll consult with you to help you get it up, hook it into Google, and off you go.
Speaker 2:Then his business partner wanted to meet. His business partner met with me, and he was like, I actually want you to do can you do both of our sites? This was the end of it. He said, can you can you do both of our sites for $500? And I said, no.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. I will do it myself personally. I will do it for $1,500, and it will be the same exact site, and I will just install a theme and hook it into Google for you and launch it, and show you how to use it, and that's it. He said, well, can I trade you a year's worth of membership? And I said, no.
Speaker 2:I have a CrossFit place? Two sites, and I will show you how to use it. Right? And they said, no. And recently, we launched two other CrossFit sites for the local market, and now my my buddy was like, I can't believe you launched CrossFit sites for other for other people.
Speaker 2:I said, welcome to the world of business, my friend. Yeah. Now you understand what it's like. Right? You don't have people paying you the $200 a month you want for CrossFit.
Speaker 2:More competition comes in, and now you understand what it's like to be on the other side of the fence.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And, you know, you you wanna do a favor for a friend and family, but
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:They they often don't fully understand what that favor actually really means. And, like Right. You know, they look at someone like us and they're like, oh, but it's so easy for you to make a website. You do it all the time. Like, it's so easy for you.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't take time.
Speaker 2:And Right.
Speaker 3:And time, you know, for for a freelance web designer is money. Right. And even if you're doing a theme, that's at least a day. Yep. That means taking a whole day off of work, like, this is a day that I'm not gonna get paid for.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And and that's like, you know, it's it's it's hard to understand for for many people that that's actually what you're asking for. You're you're asking to, you know and and then, you know, it also it's not only like working for free or for very little, but it's also you're taking time away from these other high paying client projects, you know, and things are getting delayed and now now I'm gonna have to work an extra weekend or something like that. Like, that's what a typical freelancer goes through with these kind of things, you
Speaker 2:know. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I divert everything into advice instead of work.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I, you know, I've done that as well. And I that's mostly what I do with with friends and family is I'm you know, I'll I'll give them I'll do like a brain dump with them when when when I'm with them. And then, like, later on, I'll send them, like, a long email, a bunch of links, like, gotta check this out, check this out, subscribe to this podcast, like, check all this stuff out. Like, I I feel like they have the advantage of knowing someone like me who's really tapped into all this stuff where the average person is not.
Speaker 3:So I'm like, look, gotta read up on this guy, this guy, this guy, and this guy. And most people take that as like, oh, this is awesome. Thank thanks. I got a lot to read up on. This is awesome.
Speaker 3:And then I've had other friends say, like like, oh, you're just gonna, like, offload me on some, like, free tool? You're not gonna help me out? You know? And it's like, you know, I I happen to know this tool that's perfect for your situation. Like, this this website builder or this marketing tool or whatever, like, you don't need to get it done built custom for you.
Speaker 3:You can just use this thing. And and look. I you know, I'm pointing you in the right this is everything you need to do. You don't need to overcomplicate this, but, you know
Speaker 1:Right. Like, if you hired me as a consultant, I would be telling you this.
Speaker 2:Right. Right.
Speaker 1:I would I would just be signing signing you up for this service anyway.
Speaker 3:Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that's but that's not even like a friends and family problem, that's like just client problem. Yeah. That's just like Pretty much, yeah. I'm going through a new barber.
Speaker 2:It's a great place. It's like, it's called Gentleman's Quarter. It's like the only it's guys only, they do all kinds of stuff, haircuts, massages, all kinds of hot shaves, all this fun stuff. The guy's telling me that nothing's working on the web. He's trying to get more traffic.
Speaker 2:I haven't even told him like what I do. So I started telling him like, well, you get all these other products like hot shaves and massages and things like that. What you really gotta tell people is like what the experience is like here. Not just come get a haircut, but why they should come here, and they're gonna get all this other stuff that they don't get wherever they're going now. I go on like this whole spiel.
Speaker 2:At the end of the conversation, he's done cutting my hair. He goes, you're you're obviously good with computers. You know how I can hook up these four TVs to to my computer over there? I'm like, are you serious right now? Like, I was I was just giving you, like, oh god, stuff that would probably bring in, like, $50 a year in revenue for you, and you just, like, narrowed it down to, I'm a I'm a computer guy.
Speaker 2:Hook up my 14 Es.
Speaker 3:You're a
Speaker 2:tech guy. Yeah. Like, I just had to walk away.
Speaker 3:So so I guess, like, final question that I had here, you know, I don't think this necessarily applies to any of us here, but just something that I see quite a bit in in in the web world is working with your spouse, like, working with your wife in in business. Well, I mean, Matt, like, you you said your your mother kinda handles the books. Right? So, I mean, like, I see a lot of, like, husband and wife teams out there or or or some friends have said, like, they hired on their wife to help out with, like, answering emails and things like that. Like, you guys ever be open to that kind of thing, or have you ever considered it or that kind of dynamic, like, working with your wife?
Speaker 2:My future wife would not work with me. She wouldn't wanna work with me. You know, she's a she's a nurse. She's an ICU nurse. So she's just very like, once those shifts are done, she doesn't even wanna think about it, and she doesn't necessarily need to.
Speaker 2:There's no take home except for maybe the emotional stuff that goes on. But she's very much like, when my shift is done, I wanna be done. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's the same with my wife. She's a occupational therapist who works in the school. So she's basically at school or she comes home and that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I I can't see myself doing that at that capacity. You know? And don't think she I I she would probably go nuts having to work alongside of me, because then I wouldn't stop working. Because that'd be the problem. I'd be like, oh, no.
Speaker 2:We're just, you know now we're working every day together. So
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It just depends on, you know, the people involved. For right? For the three of us, for for me as well, it wouldn't it wouldn't make sense.
Speaker 1:You know? But I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I you see people do it, successfully and happily. Personally, I wouldn't I wouldn't wanna mix those up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I I have enough trouble separating my thoughts, you know, from from personal and business. You know, I I have enough trouble, like, sitting with my six month old on the ground and not thinking about work. To to go even further and have my wife involved, I think sounds like a little little too much.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I mean, I agree. You know, even if the logistics, like, career and everything, it's you know, like, even if that weren't a factor, I I would not want to mix the two. There was a very brief moment, like, a a couple years ago before I started hiring, like, my assistants and everything where I was like, you know, Amy, maybe you can kinda help out because we were talking about as, you know, she she became pregnant and, like, she's gonna go part time and, like, maybe she should quit altogether. Like, maybe you can help out in my business.
Speaker 3:But then that conversation lasted, one day before I was like, no. Never mind about that. We're not doing that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think the separation is healthy. Yeah. Entrepreneurs like us, we think about work so much. I I I can't imagine breaking down one more barrier. You know, I'd I like have a struggle enough, like, I literally will read New York Magazine before going to dinner with friends, so I have something to talk about
Speaker 2:other than work.
Speaker 3:So Yeah. I try to, like, check up on, like, sports
Speaker 1:and stuff like Yeah. Let me let me just figure out, like, a movie or, a you know? Because all I have I have, like, money and politics. So that gets pretty old. So to go one more barrier, I think it would decrease the the the richness of of of your of your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I do really value that separation, especially now that that I work in the office. It's like when I get home, it's it's family time. It's hanging out with the baby, hanging out with my wife, watching TV, you know, other stuff. And and granted, I I do tend to, like, drone on about got a customer in restaurant engine today and, like, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 3:But, like That's normal. You know? But but, yeah, like, having that separation, I I cannot imagine, like, mixing the two, like, you know, are are, like, thinking about, like, current projects and, like, the working dynamic and then the home
Speaker 2:yeah. Right.
Speaker 3:I I really like the separation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's the danger in general of what, you know, what we talked about today. Family, you know, when you if you don't work with your dad and you see each other once, I don't know, once a month, when you when you hang out, you you are focused very much on each other's personal lives and, hey, how's work going? How's your business? But it's not so intertwined, you know.
Speaker 1:And that might be the downside of working together. And on the other hand, you do get to you get to know each other, and you get to be in more involved in each other's lives. And I think that's the the tricky thing about family business in in general. It's not all good and not all bad. You know, I I've said this lot with my my brothers.
Speaker 1:If you're gonna go into a family business, just make sure it's fucking successful. Because because if it's not
Speaker 2:Solves all the problems right there.
Speaker 1:It it does. It it it will help overcome a lot of the issues. Because if it's not successful, then you are in danger of, you know, larger repercussions than just going out of business. Yep.
Speaker 2:Yep. Yeah. And it's it's it's funny too. The well, one one thing that I've observed, which you noted, which you just talked about was the differences between my family and my fiance's family going to, like, the family dinners there. No there's no work talk.
Speaker 2:They're all like nurses. They all have they're all nurses. I mean, they're all they all she comes from a back all of her sisters are nurses. Her brother in law's a nurse. No one's talking about work.
Speaker 2:Growing up in my family, that's all you talked about because it's all you did. You work together and you did that. But what I was going to say about what Jordan has said about making sure that you are successful. The other thing is it's an interesting concept to see myself. Like, I remember growing up and being like, man, nobody nobody screws with my dad.
Speaker 2:Like, nobody is, like, messing with him. Like, no one gives him any shit. And, you know, if if you do, you better look out. Now, I feel like it's me in that position, and he's a lot easier going now, which is a very interesting dynamic. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And maybe I think a little bit of it has to do with he's not well, not anymore, but in the beginning, he wasn't really sure about this industry, like tech and what he should be asking and and how he should be responding to people, and I was. And so that's also an interesting dynamic to see sort of that crossover. Because, like, he he
Speaker 3:like You mean, like, when it comes to clients or, like, your team and everything? Or
Speaker 2:Every everything. Like, we have Yeah.
Speaker 1:Your your dad knows everything, all of sudden, you know more than your dad.
Speaker 2:Right. Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's a strange thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, even, like, the solicitors that come in that sell, like, office supplies. Man, you couldn't even step foot onto the dealership if you were selling something to us. You'd be like, you know, everybody knew, like, you can't, you just can't roll up here and try to sell something to to Mark. Now they'll come in, and he'll sit down and he'll talk to them, And I'll be like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:Just get
Speaker 1:him out of here. And I just I'm like, just
Speaker 2:get him out of here. And he's like, no. No. He's like, wanna, you know, I wanna learn. I wanna talk about I wanna talk to them.
Speaker 2:I wanna learn how they're selling and all this stuff. So now it's like, he's got this whole new, like, interesting dynamic. So it's kinda funny. It's funny.
Speaker 1:Well, I I do wanna touch on one thing before we close this thing down. We're we're starting to push past an hour. Right, Matt? You you don't have kids yet, but you're you're on that path. Right?
Speaker 1:Hopefully, if that's what you want. Brian and I have kids. It starts to become something that you think about. I know the way I grew up from age 12. I knew exactly what was happening financially with the family.
Speaker 1:I knew why. I knew what was happening. I knew why it's okay to have a down month if you expect more the following month. You know, I understood it the whole way as just part of my psyche, and I grew up with that at all times. I always knew how much money my family had from, like, age 13.
Speaker 1:My wife did not. My my wife's family, her father took the corporate route and worked his butt off and has done well for himself, you know, but in a straight disciplined line. And the way they kept things at home was that's just not not that it's not your business. It's just that's not what you should be thinking about. Think about school.
Speaker 1:Think about sports. Think about your friends. Think about college. Think about the things that you should be thinking about, and you don't need to know exactly what's happening with our finances. And now having kids, I it's really hard to know which is the right way to go for for you and your family.
Speaker 1:So what what do you wanna pass on to your kids? The knowledge, but also the, I don't know, accelerated growing up that comes with, being very familiar with finances, or do you wanna shelter them and deal with the repercussions of someone that, you know, has been sheltered a lot of their lives from from that reality.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The biggest takeaway, you know, growing up, I remember, like, I remember starting working there when I was in the fifth grade. Right? Going into middle school ending elementary school, going to middle school. And across the dealership, across the street was our mall, the mall that's local to us.
Speaker 2:And I would have friends going in there on the weekends while I was outside, like pulling weeds and like doing landscaping that would literally you have to like drive past us, because we were right across from the mall, and take a left to get into the mall. And they would see me, like, out there working. They'd be all hanging out at the mall as kids do, right, and just having a good time. And then I'd see them in school and be like, why don't you come to the mall? I'm like, no.
Speaker 2:I can't. I'm working. Right? And I remember growing up and being like, I will never make my future kids do this until I realized it was the best damn lesson Mhmm. I've ever had.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, you know, even getting into high school, my uncle who ran the other dealership, my cousin, not that this was a bad thing for him, but he got a dealer plate. He could pick any car he wanted from his dealership and drive it around, and people were like, this dude's awesome. Right?
Speaker 1:He can pick up a
Speaker 2:new car anytime he want. Not me. Not Matt. Matt wasn't allowed to do that. Right?
Speaker 2:Matt wasn't the boss's son that you see just driving around anything he wanted. And it sucked back then, right? Dragging around buckets, washing cars, I hated it. But it instilled a massive amount of work ethic, and not quitting kind of thing. You know, and hopefully, no matter what the financial status is, I can hopefully pass along that same kind of fun lesson to my future kids.
Speaker 2:I I definitely saw So was sort of bittersweet.
Speaker 3:Definitely, like, having as as soon as you're legally allowed to go get a job, go get a you're you're getting a job. That's I I think, you know, my my parents had that with me. Like, I had jobs since, like, I don't know, like, '16, 17. And I had a lot of crappy jobs. I had a lot of awesome jobs as as a high school kid, you know.
Speaker 3:But I I just remember I I have a couple of friends who I grew up with who are who their family's really well off. Like, their their parents or their their his father was, like, super high up at one of the big banks. Like, they were set. Whole family was set. The kids do not need to work.
Speaker 3:But I remember I I delivered pizzas with him year in, year out at our local pizza joint. His parents said, you're you're going to get a job. And I I just I I love that whole mentality. Like, you we all know, like, you don't need to be working right now, you know, earning cash tips and stuff like that. But but it's just that experience of putting in the hours and and working and and coming home and and earning some cash.
Speaker 3:You know? And so that that was important for me, and I think that will be important for for my kids. It's still really early on. I'm only seven months into fatherhood, so I'm still just trying to figure out the whole, like, diaper thing at the time. But yeah.
Speaker 3:You know? And, like, the other thing and this is probably getting off into a whole other tangent and, you know, we'll end it soon. But the other thing that I think about a lot is, like, as as a business owner and as an entrepreneur and as a carve your own destiny type of person, I wonder how that's gonna influence, you know, how I teach my my daughter, you know, as she grows up. Like, you know, when I was growing up, my my parents were very big into schoolwork. And, of course, that's important.
Speaker 3:You gotta you gotta do well in school. You gotta be committed, responsible, and all that. College, I question. Like no. Like, obviously, you know No.
Speaker 1:Things are getting weird now. It's not
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, I I think
Speaker 1:Not as clear.
Speaker 3:It's not as clear, and I think college will look very different in fifteen to twenty years. The it's already looking different today. It's gonna be super different in fifteen, eighteen years Right. From now. So who knows what's that what that's really gonna look like.
Speaker 3:I I think there's a lot of waste in college, a lot of wasted money, a lot of wasted time. You know? But, of course, there's plenty of of very important experiences and things that you learn in college. You know? But, you know, I I tend to think that everything that I learned happened on the job.
Speaker 3:You know? So
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, let's let's leave it there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like we could we could go on forever on this. Yeah. Totally. Matt, thank you very much for coming on.
Speaker 1:I I really enjoyed the conversation. Even if this one is just for the three of our benefit and everyone else gets bored after ten minutes, I think it was great. And and the truth is a lot of people we talked about family businesses specifically, but these issues, surround all all types of businesses and partnerships. And when you're going it alone and yeah. So I you know, thank you very much for coming on.
Speaker 1:Was great to meet you and a a great conversation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Yeah. This, you know, this was one of my favorite episodes. Yeah. This was awesome. So, you know, Matt, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 3:Everyone, you guys gotta check out Matt's show, Matt Report. You know, really awesome show, especially if you're in the WordPress space. It's it's about WordPress, but it's really about business. And and I and I love that that merger of the two. So that's awesome.
Speaker 3:And check out your new plugin, conductorplugin.com. Very cool. Looks great. And, yeah, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks, guys.
Speaker 3:Alright. So that wraps it up. As always, you know, head over to bootstrappedweb.com. You can get on our newsletter there. We should probably start sending out a newsletter to that list pretty soon.
Speaker 3:And then as always, you know, head over to iTunes if you're enjoying this show, any of the other ones. Leave us a five star review. Shoot us a note on Twitter. I'm at Castjam at Jordan Gall. Shoot us a note over email.
Speaker 3:We'd love to hear from you guys, you know, hear what you wanna hear about, other topics, questions that we'll cover in the show, anything like that. Always love to hear from you guys. So so thanks for tuning in, and and we'll talk to you next week.
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