[51] Crush Every Goal You Set with Clint Warren
This is Bootstrapped Web episode 51. It's the podcast for you, the founder who learns by doing as you boot strap your business online. And today, it's all about making progress from one month to the next, one year to the next, and there's no better person to join us for this one than my buddy Clint Warren. And as always, I'm Brian.
Jordan Gal:And I'm still Jordan.
Brian Casel:And, Clint, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3:What's up, guys? It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Brian Casel:Yeah. So, Clint, I think you you were on two previous episodes with me, earlier in the show. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I think we did one where you interviewed me, and then I did one where I interviewed you.
Brian Casel:Oh, that's right. Yeah. Cool. So as you guys may know, Clint is he's a longtime friend of mine. We actually share an office here together in in Norwalk, Connecticut.
Brian Casel:He's actually just in the other room right now while while Jordan, you're on the other side of the country.
Jordan Gal:Completely other side, West Coast.
Brian Casel:So so, you know, today, I I really wanna talk about this idea of making progress. You know, we'll we'll talk all about, like, productivity and and, making sure that we're getting the most out of our time and setting goals and all that. But, really, what I wanna frame this whole conversation around is how are we actually leveling up and, you know, just not talking about what we wanna do and thinking about what we wanna do, but actually doing it and actually getting it done and making sure that we're making progress. So that's that's the whole theme for today. And so, I mean, you know, Clint, for those who are aren't as familiar with you, obviously, you know, you guys can go back to some of those earlier episodes.
Brian Casel:I think they're in in the teens somewhere. We'll have to we'll dig them up and put them in the show notes. But, you know, briefly, what you know, you're quick. Like, what do you do? But what have you been up to this year in 2014?
Brian Casel:Like, give us the update, as we get near the end of 2014. Like, what did you accomplish? What were the big things?
Speaker 3:So, you it's funny because I'm actually gonna do a blog post towards the end of year called my income report, but it's not gonna have anything to do with money. I I break down my goals into a couple categories, mental, physical, spiritual, and business. So let's give sort of a quick rundown. Tuesday night, I hosted a charity event with Ryan Lee, famed Internet marketer, and Mary Antonopoulos, who's a social media expert. We raised over $2,000 for a local charity.
Speaker 3:That was my effort at, like, giving back to the community. I brought the first, WordCamp conference to Connecticut, built an amazing relationship with a woman that I I really love and care about, that I you know, we've that will have been together for one year on December 13. Rebuilt my personal brand, doing some coaching, starting a podcast, following your lead, Brian, and building the audience, a mailing list and my blog. Read over 50 books and counting, dozens of online courses, building my brain and my earning potential. I've written three books this year on search engine optimization, The Six Figure Freelancer, which is a guide for freelancers, and a book called Unlocking Your True Potential, Squat Cleaned 300 Pounds.
Speaker 3:Hey. I'm a meathead. I won a CrossFit competition, hired a project manager, and scaled up the stacked agency. Spoke have, like, 50 speaking engagements since 21 speaking engagements in September, well over 50 this year. So I I do a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3:I mean, at the core, I I really strive to provide value and have an impact through whether it's helping clients, building websites, providing online marketing strategies, or then, teaching people, personal development, business strategy, whatever I can do to share what I've learned, whether it's helping people apply it or just giving them the tools they need to apply it to their life or business.
Brian Casel:Okay. Well,
Speaker 3:Jordan, what did what
Dan Norris:did you do this year?
Jordan Gal:I I don't I don't wanna go next. No. The I I did a I did a bunch of different things this year. I I I like how Clint breaks it down into different categories. So the focus isn't entirely on business and and money and income, and and, you know, I think that's very healthy.
Jordan Gal:If I look at the past year, I would say the the the the highlights are are not business related, traveling all over the place with my family, a bunch of different cities. We went to Europe for a month and stayed at a bunch of different cities for a few months at a time you know, and had our second baby. That that stuff way overshadows the the business side of things, even if, you know, on a day to day basis, my mind is mostly focused on progress on on business, that is when when I'm at work.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Although you did you did have quite a few, pretty awesome business accomplishments this year, Jordan. I mean, you know, launching the the SaaS and getting the getting more than just your first paying customers, I mean, that's a that's a big win in itself. And then, you know, I remember, you're launching of the course. And, and Clint, I mean, I don't I don't even know if if you mentioned that as well, but you you did just launch the, the 6 figure freelancer course as well.
Brian Casel:So Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I guess between the three of us, a lot of lot of launches and and
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think, you know, I think it's it's a beautiful thing. I I had the realization the other day, you know, this this year was kind of for me, like, a lot of thrashing. And, you know, Brian, you and I have talked about this so many times. We'll we'll probably go into it a little bit here just in terms of focus.
Speaker 3:So this year was about just like trying everything, really stabilizing income. But I'm at a point now where I'm very, very blessed and fortunate to like know that probably for the rest of my life, like, my needs will be met. And then, you know, it's a question of, like, what do you do beyond that? You know? How much how much more can you go?
Speaker 3:And that's to me, that was just like, oh, thank god. You know? Like, I know I'm not gonna, like, starve. I know as a self employed person, there's that, like, threshold of, like, you know, gets that point where you know every month no matter what, like, you're good. You you your your bills are gonna be paid, and then it's just a question of how much walking around money you're have.
Speaker 3:So
Brian Casel:That is a great feeling. I mean, I remember, just a couple weeks ago, I was on, Adam Clark's podcast, the gently mad. And he asked me a question near the end saying, could you ever see yourself going back to full time employment? Oh.
Speaker 3:Throw up.
Brian Casel:And and I kinda had the same reaction. Right? I was I was thinking, like I I really gave it some some hard thought about that question. Like, could I ever go back to full time employment? And I just don't see how that could ever happen.
Brian Casel:Don't I don't see any scenario where that would happen. Right?
Jordan Gal:Hopefully not.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I mean, hopefully not. But even even, you know, if I needed needed the cash or whatever, I would go back to consulting first before I would
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Brian Casel:You know. I mean, you you never really like, I can't say never, you know, but it's it it is a great feeling knowing that I think all three of us here have have been able to get things off the ground, you know, starting literally from zero. And and and and we've built up that skill set that we can basically figure it out, any any year, any location, you know, any situation.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Yeah. But I'll I'll tell you, I do not I don't have that feeling. Even if it's true that, like, okay. I'm not gonna starve and, you know, my you know, we live in a nice house and all that stuff, but I I have no not satisfaction.
Jordan Gal:There's there's nothing there that keeps me calm. Like, okay. You know what? I'm good, and where do I go from here? I am in a constant state of dissatisfaction and comparing what I think my potential is and where I
Brian Casel:am currently. So it I I I certainly relate to that myself too. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm not where I want to be, you know, forever at this point. They're like, yeah.
Brian Casel:I I you know, in terms of income, in terms of, growth and, yeah. Like, not there yet. You know? Definitely ways to go and things to improve. And I'm looking ahead toward 2015 to think about how I can actually, hit some of those targets that that I'm laying out for myself.
Brian Casel:So that I I think that's on everyone's mind, really.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be healthier to focus a bit more or to have a bit more of a balanced view on things, but I have not been able to do that. I I basically see every year that I'm not earning my potential as a year that I, like, fall behind. You know?
Jordan Gal:And and the only comfort I get is in knowing that in the game that we're in and the game that I'm trying to play, a breakout is always one to two years away. Right? So if I have a year, let's say I make $200,000, that's awesome. But if I feel like I should be making $500 a year, I feel way behind. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:Instead of the satisfaction of, hey, you know what? I, you know, I'm in the top 2% of earners in the country. I have, like, no sense of comfort. The only thing that gives me comfort is I know that the game we're playing within a year or two, you could, you know, you could be a a millionaire. So so I I think I focus on that a lot more than the, okay, you know, I'm I'm doing relatively well and and things are stable.
Speaker 3:And that's, you know, just to that point, I kind of experienced this, you know, on Saturday, I I launched my Six Figure Freelancer course. I had a seven hour workshop. Got amazing feedback. Tuesday night had the charity event. Got so much great feedback but for me too, it's kind of like that achiever's dilemma of afterwards I'm kinda like, no matter how much thank you or acclaim or whatever I get, you know, at the end of day, I'm just like, okay, what's next?
Speaker 3:You know? And a part of me kind of wonders like, it will it ever be enough? Will I ever be able to just sit back and say like, you know, pat yourself on the back? Which I I kind of do, but I think it's a double edged sword. That's that ambition and always looking to the next level is what drives us and keeps us with that insatiable thirst for knowledge and like getting better and improving our systems.
Speaker 3:But at the same time, it can be kind of a detriment when you're just never you're you're endlessly chasing something that's always out of reach.
Brian Casel:Yeah. You know, Jordan, you you mentioned something real quick there. Like, what we're working on, you know, at some point, there will be be, like, a breakout hit. And and then another thing that stuck out to me was kinda the that feeling of, like, falling behind, like, falling behind schedule. So for me, I think it's a little bit different.
Brian Casel:I I have the same kind of I don't know. What do you call it? Like, anxieties about, like, you know, think like, I'll have months that go by saying, alright. This was not as good of a month as it could have been. And I I take it much more on, like, a month by month basis, and sometimes a full year at a time.
Brian Casel:But but, really, I'm looking at it like, I need a few big wins every single month. Maybe that's, you know, adding, a few more customers than last month or maybe adding, like, double the customers of last month or, launching a new initiative or launching a new product or, just making meaningful progress knowing that I've I've just made the most out of these last, like, two to four weeks. Any and and there are a number of these, like, two to four week periods where either I I get distracted and things don't get done, or I try to do something and it kind of flops, or you know? When those things happen, I'm looking at it like, alright. You know, because throughout the year, I'll make a thousand different decisions in my business.
Brian Casel:And if if I'm not if I'm if I'm not making the right decision more than half the time, then I'm not having a very good year. It's like a a batter in in baseball. I mean, I mean, it's in it's harder in bay you know, batting 300 in baseball. You're you're one of the best. So, I mean, that's kind of what I think of it.
Brian Casel:Like, every at bat is, like, oh, what am I working on this week, and how can I make it a big win to make it a big step forward?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. It's a it's a challenge. Yeah. And that's you know, I'm excited to you know, I think we should get into some of these some of these topics that we wanted to talk about today because what we're talking about right now is, like, the theory and the feeling that goes behind it. But then it breaks down to a day to day, week by week, month by month, and how we conduct ourselves and how we plan.
Jordan Gal:So I think that's you know, it's a great segue into, these individual strategies that we wanna talk about and and these issues.
Brian Casel:Yep.
Jordan Gal:Yes. Let's, let's get into that. I think the first one, we wanted to bring up is something that everybody struggles with. Yep. And that's the theory of consuming versus doing.
Jordan Gal:Right? Learning something new, educating yourself, blogs, podcast, courses. Right? It's an ongoing thing. But then there's also the element of taking what you learned and applying it and doing it.
Jordan Gal:Yep. And and I think a lot of people struggle with the learning a little bit too much, and and not doing enough.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I could I could this is like a perfect topic for me because this is one of the biggest things. I I told myself recently I'm not buying another course, because there's there's really no substitute for doing. You get to a point where it's like, you can take these courses till you're blue in the face, like how to build your recurring, revenue membership site, how to, I don't know, you know, you name it. Rumeet Sethi, zero to launch, blog that converts, like all this stuff, sales training, this and that.
Speaker 3:So I told myself, you know, I'm not buying any more courses. I have, you know, I have this philosophy now that I'm not going to I'm going to only consume material, educational material that I can apply right away to my business or my life. Because otherwise, there's no real purpose. You know, my time is so limited at this point that there's no real purpose for even then learning it. And it sounds kind of like militant, like, why would I take a course right now on a recurring revenue system for like physical newsletter mailings If I'm not going to do that, like that has no relevance to anything that that I need to know.
Speaker 3:So I've I've become very militant about that, you know, making sure that I'm just only consuming information that I can apply and take action with. Because at this point, it's like between all of us, we know pretty much everything. There's not a ton more on courses that we can take that's really gonna be this holy crap type moment. Like, this is the most revolutionary new thing. It's just about applying it and then tweaking it.
Speaker 3:So that's that's been one of my, you know, things lately. It's like, stop stop learning. You you know enough to tailor that back scale that back and just start doing stuff and really applying it and tweaking it.
Brian Casel:Yeah. You know, you you mentioned a a good point there. I I think the role of courses or books or anything, and this is how I've always approached it whenever I purchase something like that is when you're ready to apply it. Like, when you're at that point in your at that phase in your business, you know, this month, if if if you're working on something, then and and it really applies. And and sometimes, you know, the the training or the systems or the or the procedure, you know, helps you move that along faster.
Brian Casel:And that's really the the role of of of, I think, a a good course. Yes. You know, I I talked in last week's podcast about how I just ran the survey of people giving their objections to to my recent, productized course and, you know, people who did who didn't buy. Like, why didn't you buy now, or do you plan to buy later, all that stuff. A common one that I that I heard back was, you know, just now is not the right time for me, maybe in the future.
Brian Casel:But right now, I'm focused on I'm I'm in the middle of too many projects in in my business. And, you know, I get into these email conversations and, you know, I I love hearing that. I I don't want you to buy the course and do it if you're in the middle of do working on your business. You know? Like, I I usually reply, like, well, there's there's no better, education than than learn by doing.
Brian Casel:And, you know, great to hear. And and I wouldn't want a student to come through, you know, one of my courses, and I'm I'm sure the same is for for your courses. Right? That, if if you're not ready to apply it right now, then I don't want you to go through it. You know?
Brian Casel:I I want people who are ready to kinda learn it, but immediately put it into action.
Jordan Gal:Yep. Yes. That's who'll get the most value out of it. Yeah. I I think online courses have a a hugely important and beneficial role if if they're used properly.
Jordan Gal:And I think that's a good rule, you know, when you're ready to apply it, that's that's a good rule. There is something very attractive about the the shiny object and the next new thing and, you know, somebody that you like and admire comes out with a new course and you wanna take it. But the emphasis should definitely be weighed toward the doing. I I I know at some point this year, I almost didn't even wanna hear about anything new. I just I knew what I had to do, and anything that was going to distract me from executing on that was really just gonna be an excuse.
Jordan Gal:I was just gonna it was just gonna be an excuse that I made for myself on I just need this one more thing or learn just this or this will make it better. Yeah. So it's great to educate yourself and I like doing it and I wanna offer it to to other people as well. But it should really be, like, you know, much more. It should be 80% doing and 20% education.
Jordan Gal:And the education should be ongoing, but the doing should be the, you know, the the dominant part.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And and, you know, how about, like, the the smaller chunks? Like, the so blog articles and consuming podcasts and and even reading books. Right? Like so how are you guys, limiting that stuff and and keeping a balance between, like, consuming on a daily bay like, day to day basis versus, you know, getting to work?
Speaker 3:For for me, I don't really read blocks. I just don't have time. Actually, you know what? I I started trying to make the habit of quickly flipping through for like twenty minutes at night through Feedly on my Amazon Kindle. Podcasts for me, again, I will walk around during the day because I work in chunks of time, then I take a break and go for like a fifteen minute walk.
Speaker 3:And again, what what I will do is look through the podcast that are that are at that point relevant to my business. You know, so like I listened to your guys' episode on doing webinars to sell. I was like, this is perfect timing because I'm doing a webinar in three days. So this is the information that I need right now. You know, in terms of some books, I I I would say for the most part that I do keep it to the point where it's all stuff that I can apply right away.
Speaker 3:Generally read for thirty to forty five minutes before I go to bed. And I just try to structure it. I pick certain topics and focus on those and then consume a lot of material around those topics. But, you know, sometimes at night, like, when it's book reading, it's not always directly tied. You know, you gotta have some fun.
Speaker 3:It's not your whole day can't revolve around, you know, just just consuming information for the sake of, like, doing business and that kind of stuff.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Totally. I I've actually I've always been a big blog reader. I've always subscribed to a bunch of blogs. I actually still use RSS.
Brian Casel:Maybe one of the Dude. Maybe one of the few who still does. You know? But but the way that I do structure it and and kind of limit it is the only time I really read the blogs that I subscribe to is during breakfast for, like, fifteen minutes while I'm while I'm having that morning coffee. I'll open up Dig Reader and just check out, you know, what's new in in, like, the five to 10 blogs that I kind of care about.
Brian Casel:And, if if you guys see any, like, tweets that come through my account during the day, it's because I buffered them at that time during breakfast. Okay. And that's the other thing is Twitter. You know, a couple years back, I had I had a a Twitter feed open on my screen all day, every day. Stupidest thing you could possibly do.
Brian Casel:You know? I mean, because, you know, what happens especially, like, working in the web industry and you follow all these people, it's of course, you wanna be tuned into Twitter. I it's on my phone and everything. But, you know, I what would happen is somebody tweets something interesting, and it's something that you don't wanna miss. Like, you actually wanna read it at some point.
Brian Casel:It that is such a distraction when you're in the middle of writing or in the middle of coding or in the middle of, you know, working on something. So just uninstall the Twitter app off of your Mac. I did that, like, two years ago, and that alone was a huge boost. You know, just so so so the decision to make my blog consuming for, like, fifteen minutes in the morning, It's also on my phone. So if I'm, like, waiting, you know, in line at, in a supermarket or something like that, I might pull it out.
Brian Casel:You know? Because you have those moments where you're just, like, in the middle of nowhere and and, know, you can't exactly get work done, but, you know, you might as well read something. Yes. So so that's kinda how I limit that. I mean, I'm honestly not a huge reader.
Brian Casel:I do read, you know, some business books throughout the year. I've lately, I I try to steer like, I I enjoy reading right before bed, but I try to steer clear of the business books because by the time I'm home and after dinner and we're watching TV and then I'm I'm reading, I wanna be disconnected from Okay. From work and business. You know? So I'm try lately, I'm trying to get a little bit back into fiction, which I've always had to struggle.
Brian Casel:Like, I always prefer nonfiction, but, you know, that's that's where I'm at.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. I think fiction plays a big role. I feel like the more serious, you know, my responsibilities get in life, the more toward, like, science fiction and zombies I go on the on the entertainment side. So, yeah, Lord of the Rings, Walking Dead. That's a great great show.
Jordan Gal:Okay. And and things like that play a role. For for me, I kind of break out the the whole blog and, you know, consumption of of new ideas into three buckets. The first is just entertainment. I just listen to a podcast in the background.
Jordan Gal:I like to be inspired by people and hear what other people are doing and sometimes you get ideas from it but it's mostly just kind of marinating in you know in this world while you're by yourself in front of a computer. So that's like the entertainment bucket.
Brian Casel:So you do you listen to podcasts while you're at the computer working? Yeah. That that I can never do. I I always listen to podcasts either in the car or when I'm out walking the dog. I I just can't I can't listen to talking while I'm working.
Jordan Gal:Well, I'm I'm just better than you, so you're gonna you're gonna have to deal with it. No. I've I've always listened to podcasts. Yeah. And I don't have a commute anymore, I'm never in the car.
Jordan Gal:So it just still just kinda makes sense. But when I wanna focus, I put on music. So that's the first bucket. And then the next bucket is just just an ongoing education, Just reading blogs of other people and marketers that you respect and you wanna keep up with and, you know, learn little bits, but I don't change my strategies and what I do every day based on that stuff. That's just kind of like keeping up with what is happening, which I think is healthy.
Jordan Gal:And then the third bucket is like the serious shit bucket. Like, you know, I'm about to go sign up for a data provider for ecommerce Mhmm. For the ecommerce industry so I can do, you know, a more proactive outbound sales approach. And so if I'm gonna pay them $500 a month for that type of data, I wanna I wanna make use of it. And so I go over to breakthrough email and these things like that, like cold emailing systems.
Jordan Gal:And that is when I'm like serious about it. I'm like, okay, maybe I'm gonna pay a 100, 200, 300 to learn this because it makes sense. If I'm gonna spend $500 a month on one side, I can invest $300 on a course to make it much more effective. And the added benefit is the psychology of paying for something, you take it much more seriously, and then I feel like that gives me a kick of momentum. Just pulling out the credit card and making the decision to buy it starts off the momentum for me.
Jordan Gal:Maybe that's stupid, but that's just how I'm wired. So that's like my third bucket of like, okay. I wanna get into consulting. I'm gonna take this class or read this ebook and pay for it and take it seriously and have that accelerate my my progress on that front.
Brian Casel:Yeah. You know, I I think I I have fallen into this trap before, and I'm I'm trying to break myself out of it this year of, like, always trying to figure out my own way of doing things, you know, or trying to be creative about how to how to go about doing things when I really should just be trusting these proven systems that other people have had success with. And I'm I'm actually trying to do a little bit more of whether it's taking courses or really studying the exact sequences of what people are doing, and then figuring out why those worked and then applying them, you know, rather than just kind of relying on whatever, like my own, you know, skills when it comes to, like, building websites or coding or just, you know, raw, like, writing skills. Like, there are deeper strategies and techniques that that we can use to get ahead faster. And, so, yeah, I I again, this goes back to, like, the role of of using courses and and training in the right way.
Brian Casel:And I feel like I think you you take a smarter approach to strategically buy it at the right time and and apply it, and I need to be more willing to pull the trigger faster on those kind of things and just, you know, trust the system.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. This is one of those things I learned from working with my father, actually. His his take on, using money, you know, the right way in business and and the right way to think about it has made a big impact on me. So right. In his business, like, you you do a lot of marketing upfront and then you get clients and then you get paid a lot later on.
Jordan Gal:But it might feel scary to like spend money on things, but if you're trying to accomplish, you know, big things, these little purchases that we get hung up on are absolutely insignificant
Brian Casel:Yep.
Jordan Gal:In in the grand scheme of things. So, you know, if buying a new computer for a thousand bucks is going to help you accomplish, you know, making a lot more, then don't hesitate on it. If if a $97 course is going to accelerate how many clients you get using this sales technique, you know, you know, you you're trying to make a ton of money. So these little things, they're not that significant as long as you do it the right Yeah. Way and you do it for the right the right reasons.
Speaker 3:Perfect. Perfect point to that. I bought, the YouGurus, course by Brent Weaver called Web Design Sales Kit. After taking that course, all I don't take any websites under 10 k now. Every site that I've taken on.
Speaker 3:I mean, that $99 investment has probably made me well over $30,000 in the just a couple months since I took it. You know, it's like the best investment I could ever made because I applied it right away. I knew this was something like immediately the second I took the course, like, I can apply this to my sales process.
Brian Casel:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Brian Casel:So okay. So let's think now big picture. Right? Like, you know, a couple of episodes back, Jordan and I, we we talked about thinking big. So this Yeah.
Brian Casel:This may go a little bit along those same lines, but I wanna you know, again, we're talking about making meaningful progress in our businesses from year to year. So how do how do we all, like, our year long goals or maybe multiyear goals? Like, how we how do we think about those things? And and, you know, literally, like, how do we sit down and plan them? And when do we plan them?
Brian Casel:So
Speaker 3:I can I can give some in insight into to my system?
Brian Casel:Go for it, sir.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I hear because I talk about this a lot, and I think about it a lot. For me, what I ask myself, I generally have the I work backwards. So I say, what's my five to ten year goal? And your five to ten year goal in my experience is it's not so much a goal, you know, like where people are like, goals should be, you know, specific, measurable, actionable, realistic, and timely.
Speaker 3:Like, I can't say within five years, I wanna be making $500,000,000 a year, blah blah blah blah blah. For me, my five year goal is more of like a vision. In every area of my life, like, what is my perfect day? And what does that look like? You know, it's sort of this broad picture.
Speaker 3:And I'll just share for me personally, it's being on stage in front of thousands of people and producing content that just changes people's lives, helps them in a lot of different ways. So what I do with my goal system is I start I I take that goal, and I've I've hashed out a little bit more than that, but then I work backwards. So I say, okay. Like, if I wanna be on stage in front of thousands of people, you know, then in between now and then, like, I have to be on stage in front of hundreds of people. And I just start to break the goals down.
Speaker 3:And I have my one to three year goals. I have my one year goal. And then I have I have one to three months, three to six months, six to twelve months. And then I have my month, my week, my day. And it sounds crazy.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's look. You you know me, Brian. I'm, like, I'm a pretty structured guy, but I think it what it boils down to is if you know what that kind of endpoint is, at least at the very least, you know, I'm doing something every day. That's even if it's twenty to thirty minutes, that's gonna push me closer to my goal for the week. That pushes me closer to my goal for the month.
Speaker 3:That lines up with my goal for short, medium, and long term. And then that pushes me further to that that vision or dream. It's not
Brian Casel:I mean, are you thinking about these kind of things in around the turn of the year, like, January? And then Yes. In Yep. In terms of that, like, are you saying, like, okay, this year, like, over the next twelve months
Speaker 3:Yep.
Brian Casel:These three to five big initiatives have to happen?
Speaker 3:Yep. Absolutely. So what I, it's a great question. So what I did at the end of last year and what I'll do again in December this year is I sat down and I broke down in both my business and personal life. And the, you know, they're kind of mixed.
Speaker 3:Like, you know, it's I break down mental, physical, spiritual, all that stuff. And, you know, just sort of set goals for all those time periods. I have ways of just working towards them. You know, like a like, it sounds silly, you know, but I I really wanted to squat clean 300 pounds. Goddamn it.
Speaker 3:I that that wasn't just gonna, like, magically happen. It was just incremental progress month to month. It was like, how do I work on my clean technique? Okay. I find a coach.
Speaker 3:So one day, the goal was to simply find a gym with a good coach with Olympic lifting technique. And then it was mapped out like a training program over, like, eight to nine months. And each month, just make a little bit of progress towards that goal. Likewise, for STACKED, I had a revenue target that I wanted to hit by the end of the year. And so I just broke down.
Speaker 3:Was like, I I knew that I found my my magic marketing tactic which is speaking engagements. So I broke down and I said my most effective marketing tactic is speaking engagements. Okay. So what am I going to do today? I'm gonna reach out every day for two speaking engagements.
Speaker 3:Okay? So by September, I had booked 21 speaking engagements. I knew that that was going to generate between eight to 12, like very qualified leads for $10,000 plus sites. Of those, you know, three to four then would actually convert to projects. So, like, I just kind of did the math, but it was like every day, it's taking action to push closer to those goals before getting all caught up in all this reactionary BS that that can tend to happen when you start checking email, taking calls, this and that.
Speaker 3:So it's, you know, again, it's it's not this, you know, people ask me like, my god. You've done all this and that. It's like, you know, it didn't just happen magically. It's it's all that that goes on behind the scenes that day in and day out of, like, really focusing, asking like, is what I'm doing right now going to to contribute to that bigger picture and that goal?
Brian Casel:Awesome. You know, I I think for me, this year in 2014, I for the first year, I consciously made an effort to limit the number of big things that I wanted to get done this year. I feel like 2013, you know, looking back on it was had too many things going on in the years before that as well. In January 2014, Clint, you and I went on the, big snow tiny conf trip
Speaker 3:Oh, yes.
Brian Casel:To, Vermont. And I think a lot of us on that all of us on that trip were talking because it happens in January. So all of us are talking about, alright, this year, this is the year we're gonna do this and that, you know. So so that was a good week, you know, week for me where I was really thinking hard about, right, what's happening this year? What are the big plans?
Brian Casel:And and so yeah. I mean, my my goal in 2014 was to grow Restaurant Engine and grow and grow our growth rate, which, you know, still working on that. And then the other thing was to launch I thought I was gonna do a book, and it turned out to be a course. So, you know, you know, launching some kind of course product. But that was it.
Brian Casel:Like, those are the two things. And so now that we're in, like, you know, November moving close to December here at the 2014, now it's on my mind. Like, okay. I I feel like I've done a a pretty good job of staying focused and staying true to my big goals for this year. Now now let's see if I can actually drive them home, like, you know, finish off the year strong.
Brian Casel:And and and I feel like I've, you know, I've somewhat accomplished. I I've definitely accomplished the, you know, the launching the course thing. The growth on Restaurant Engine, you know, I I feel like I'm kinda still working on that. Going fairly well, but, you know, pushing making a big push here in November and December to to finish off this year right. And, you know, it's it's also shifting my mentality into next year.
Brian Casel:I'm already thinking about, like, what what will be be my big long term goals that I set out for 2015.
Speaker 3:Squat, clean 300 pounds, bro.
Brian Casel:I gotta start with, like, 10.
Jordan Gal:I'm still on 10 pounds. Good good luck.
Brian Casel:I went back to the gym this week for the first time in months, and I am, oh, man. I'm in pain. But but, Jordan, I mean, what about you? Like, what are you thinking in terms of, like, long term, you know, year, like, multiyear?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. I I think it's a really tricky thing, and I I think a lot of what Clint said, I'm gonna go back and listen to again because I I think a lot of it was, you know, pretty amazing advice and and insight.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:Definitely. It's you know, and personally, I'm good at doing the calculations involved in, you know, going backwards. So if I want Cardhook to be at $50,000 a month by x, okay, let's say the end of next year, okay, so what does that mean? How many clients do I have to achieve, you know, bring in on average per month? How many clients per week, how many leads do I need for that per day, am I doing every day what it would take to get that many leads in the door.
Jordan Gal:Right? And I think that's the smart way to look at things instead of being frustrated, and we're all guilty of it, and I'm very guilty of it myself, of looking at where you are now and then looking at where you wanna be and saying how it how is that gonna happen? How am I gonna get from where I am right now to tell tell me in bucks in the bank and a beautiful house and decide, you know, the personal side and living here. It it seems like such a far gap, you know, I think the analogy we've talked about before is climbing Everest. You don't do it in one shot.
Jordan Gal:You go to base camp one, you take a deep breath, and then you go to base camp two, you take another deep breath, and, you know, it's a gradual climb. So to just throw your hands up and be frustrated and say, there's just I don't see the path to go from where I am now to where my goals are. The way to overcome that is like Clint said, just start breaking it down and move backwards. What do you need to accomplish per year, per month, per week? And then this is where I fail.
Jordan Gal:Where I fail is I understand all that and then the day to day, I get caught up in the reactionary little things that consume my time, and I do an hour or two of genuinely productive work that goes toward accomplishing those daily goals. And then a few months go by and, you know, I act surprised at why I'm not a lot closer than than I am.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And this is this is like the next point that I really wanna get into is how do we manage that monthly, weekly, and daily routine of getting things done? Because, I mean, I I think we all deal with that is getting distracted with all these little things that, like, oh, can people asking, like, can I have five minutes of your time here? Or, you know, these emails and phone calls that come in or even, like, stuff at home. Like like, right now, have to schedule a a vet appointment for my dog.
Brian Casel:It's like, now? I have to deal with this now? You know? Right. Ways on.
Brian Casel:So, you know, so, like, how how do you guys kinda work through that and make sure that every week is is productive?
Speaker 3:I can so I I'll I'll break down kinda my daily routine because for me, okay. So for me, it's all about habits, and having intentional systems to eliminate any possibility of distraction or unproductivity. So I'll give you sort of a quick breakdown of my day. I get up generally around four to 04:30. I I used to meditate.
Speaker 3:I don't
Brian Casel:know what 04:30 looks like.
Speaker 3:It's dark. And what I do, I used to to meditate, but I've bought this hollow sync program where it it stimulates the the brain waves of meditation like much deeper. So I I wake up, I throw on my headphones, and I just lay there for thirty minutes. I go into like a deep meditative state. So it's like all the benefits of meditation while laying in bed.
Speaker 3:But the night before, and this is critical for me, I write down three to five, that's why I was laughing before your post it, Jordan. I write down three to five of like the big things, the revenue generating activities, the things that are really gonna move me closer to my goals, for the next day. And I use a post it because you can't fit a lot on there, so it really focus it makes you clarify, like, these are the things that are important that I need to get done. And I ask myself, if if I just got those three to five things done tomorrow and nothing else happened, would that be alright? And if the answer is yes, that's my list.
Speaker 3:So the next morning, I wake up, you know, I do my little meditation thing. I have my bulletproof coffee, and then I I go right to work.
Brian Casel:I don't You too with a bulletproof coffee.
Speaker 3:Hell yeah. And I'm with you. With you. So I I I then, I just got locked in the zone. My most productive time is 6AM to 11AM.
Speaker 3:No. I don't I I sometimes I'll use the Freedom app on my computer where it disconnects me from the Internet because a lot of my revenue generating stuff is like writing and stuff like that, like drafting emails for outreach. So no email, no phone. I only schedule any calls or meetings in the afternoon because I use schedule once. So I just unless it's a very important sales meeting where I know, like, from there there at nine 9AM, I'm gonna, you know, close like a a $10,000 or $15,000 site.
Speaker 3:I just focus on hammering that stuff out. That's you know, that is my big thing. So, okay, I do that, you know, the other thing that I do is every morning and evening, I journal. So in the morning before I hit those big three things, I ask myself a couple questions. What am I grateful for?
Speaker 3:What am I what are my big wins that I'm gonna go after today? And I visualize them for a little bit. And I also do some visualization strategy of visualizing that that massive success down the road. And I do affirmations and things like that. But I can I can link to a a blog post on that?
Speaker 3:But at the end of the day, what's very critical as well is I sit down and journal at night and I ask myself, you know, a couple questions. What one of them is what did I learn today? And another is like, could I have improved? And then the follow-up is then how could I improve that tomorrow? So I'm always looking for, like, based on what I did today, you know, what are some inefficiencies or just one thing I could focus on improving tomorrow?
Speaker 3:And, you know, at the end of the week, I ask myself similar questions. It's like, what are the new habits can I that I can create in the upcoming week? What things could I have improved and and what can I do? And generally, if there are things that I I need to improve, I try to figure out some sort of habit that is going to improve it versus just being like, I need to So I'll I'll give you an example. I struggled a lot with like binge eating.
Speaker 3:Like I ate really crappy food and it would just like totally derail my day. So I asked myself, alright, what's a habit? Because I've struggled with this for a while. I said, okay, I'm gonna order one of those paleo food delivery services. So I'd never have to prepare my food.
Speaker 3:It's like it's on autopilot. I have not felt better in so long. You know, the foods delivered to me, it cost, you know, $70,100 dollars a week. Bam. Done.
Speaker 3:A new habit. Like, you know, it's just it's optimizing things. It's that consistent focus, reflection, and and, you know, dedication to improvement that that has really helped me, just just keep moving forward.
Brian Casel:Nice. You know, I I think and and I've heard you talk a lot about this. And that blog post that you're talking about, by way, I I know the one you're talking about, and it is it's gold. I mean, there's a lot in there, so we will definitely link link that up. So what I wanna know, you have these really, well thought out and and structured systems, and your productivity, you know, kind of guru at this point, I think.
Brian Casel:But but, I mean, we all know that the reality of the day to day, everyone's lives, Yep. There's stuff that just flies into your day, whether it's what about everything else? Like, doctor's appointments or your parents calling or your girlfriend or the or bills that need to get paid or what like, where does all that stuff fit in? How do you deal with it? And how do you make sure that it doesn't derail what you needed to do?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, you know, a big thing that that I that I'm a fan of is, like, batch processing things. So for instance, phone calls. You know, my phone rings a lot during the day. I've got based on your advice, Brian, like I've just I don't pick up my phone.
Speaker 3:So what I do is I batch process it. What that means is that I have a small chunk of time in the afternoon where I return phone calls. Like I do it all at once. Things like doctor's appointments, I mean, I'm pretty healthy, so fortunately I don't have a ton of doctor's appointments. Mean, my girlfriends That's one thing that I will throw out there, that I don't live with my girlfriend right now.
Speaker 3:So that
Brian Casel:Yeah. I do feel like your your evening routines, the before bed stuff Yeah. The journaling and the and the goal. Like, for me, I'm just thinking, like, I'm I'm watching The Walking Dead at that time.
Speaker 3:So Right. You know what? And and I will I will say to that though, when my girlfriend, you know, stays stays over, I I still find the time. You know? It's just it's a little five minute quick reflection at night.
Speaker 3:But I I I really try to I think the big thing no matter what is I really I guard that morning productivity time with everything that I have. I really a lot of times, I will turn off my phone. I'll come in here, like, I'm, you know, disconnected from the Internet. All the website blockers are on, so I can't even, like, view websites if I want to. And it's like just hammering that stuff out.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I I will say though on planning things the night before for the next day, that's something that I really need to do a better job of. And I I understand how powerful it is because it I was listening to the, to the Tim Ferriss podcast the other day. Yep. It's one of his more recent ones.
Brian Casel:It was a shorter one talking about, decision fatigue Yep. And his hack for avoiding decision fatigue. And his advice was basically you know, one of the things that he said was plan out your morning, like, first hour or two of your morning so that it's like a brain dead process. You don't need to make any decisions whatsoever, whether it's like picking out your clothes for a day or what you're gonna eat for breakfast or what your first three activities are gonna be. That is super important.
Brian Casel:So this week, you know, I'm trying to get back into a routine of going to the gym in the morning. What I did was, you know, the classic advice. Right? Like, lay out the your gym shoes, your your shorts, your shirt. So you don't even have to think in the morning.
Brian Casel:Like, a lot a lot of times in in my hang up has always been like, oh, where did I put those shorts? You know, it's it's it's like dark in the morning. I'm trying to figure it out. Like, you don't wanna have to go through any of that. You wanna have it all laid out the night before so that you're just instantly productive, and it, like, just gives you no excuse Yes.
Brian Casel:To to call it off. It's like everything's there.
Speaker 3:You know? Becomes a habit. You know? Yeah. That's
Jordan Gal:pretty critical. Yeah. It's a it's a challenge. So I I do something similar. I don't I'm not nearly as good at it.
Jordan Gal:And and I think what what happens to me is the little things will happen during the day and that will change my mood. And then my mood will basically dictate the rest of the day. Like if I am just pissed and frustrated, then it's so hard to get back on track and it goes into this spiral. So I really like the idea of batching off a few hours every day. And yeah, was thinking about it the other day.
Jordan Gal:I'm on the West Coast, so sometimes I feel like in the morning I should do things because people are in the middle of their day. But the truth is if I ignored the entire world and pretended nobody else existed until 11AM Pacific time, nobody would notice and nobody would care. And I would have my entire morning, few hours to be only productive and only work on things I want. And there's no downside to that whatsoever. And then trying to make that a habit is the challenging part.
Jordan Gal:So let me just challenge you guys on on one thing. Right? So what what we're talking about is very obvious that we need to improve on. I'll speak for myself, very obvious that I need to improve on tremendously. The thing that sits in the back of my mind though that bothers me is that we're talking about relatively incremental change.
Jordan Gal:So that I will be more productive doing the things that I wanna do, but I don't see any potential for an exponential benefit. I don't see quadrupling, you know, 10 x, 20 x, a 100 x my productivity and my business by doing that. So at some point, I rub up against the idea that, okay, I can improve my productivity, but I also have to think about the way I'm doing things, the way I'm thinking about things that I'm relying on myself to do them. How do I leverage other people? How do I get myself into a situation where I'm making enough profit that I can pay employees so that they can start doing things?
Jordan Gal:Right? So there there is something to that gap that's missing for me. How okay. If I if I am awesome and incredibly productive for the next twelve months at doing what I'm currently doing right now, I will get my businesses to let's just, I don't know, let's throw out a number, $50,000 a month. But what if I wanna make $500,000 a month?
Jordan Gal:It what I'm doing now be getting better at it, more productive at it is is not gonna make that happen.
Brian Casel:Yeah. But okay. I mean, the $50,000 a month, twelve months from now, that's that's awesome. And that and that is and and it's almost like if you're starting from where you're at right now, a $505,100 k or more a month, twelve months from now is almost too too much of a stretch goal. I mean, isn't it?
Brian Casel:Maybe. I mean Like twenty four months from now or thirty six, maybe not so so so stretch. But in such a short period of time, it's you you know, so the way that I look at it is and look, I'm just as anxious as as you are as anyone else is to to be in the position that other people are in that we look up to or the or our big goal of where we wanna end up. I'm I wanna get there tomorrow just like the next guy. But the more I stay at this game, the more I learn that this is a gradual process.
Brian Casel:And the more that I can make every month count and make a huge leap forward from one month to the next, I know that I'm gonna be in a in a better position. And so right now, as I'm looking ahead to 2015, I was actually running the numbers in my head the other day. Based on my current products and where things are at, it's it's a very real reality that I could more than double my income for the year from 2014 to 2015. And that would be a and that would be a huge thing. And that and that would happen in over the course of twelve months.
Brian Casel:And to think that, like, I you know, there's no guarantee that I would do that. But I think that I'm on some kind of track, you know, assuming a bunch of months go really well. That could that could certainly be a reality in December 2015. And, and that would be a huge win. I mean, I'd be super satisfied with that.
Speaker 3:And the the the other thing just to Jordan's point, Jordan, I think, like, you know, for for 10 x's things too, it's like, you know, you could be making $50,000 a month and but also, you could be freeing up so much more of your time. Like that, you know, your three to five big things could just be streamlining all of your procedures and documentation so that you have people to automate some of the things so that you can then write up and develop a new an entirely new marketing funnel that could then really, like, level up and stream in, you know, tons of new customers so that you just really accelerate the growth of the business.
Jordan Gal:Yes.
Speaker 3:So for me, like it just, it's like one of these things where I actually, I'm a member of a BNI group. I don't wanna go off on a tangent here, but everything I do now, like I weigh it so carefully. Like what's the opportunity cost of me saying yes to this? So I had spoken before how BNI Group is great. For for those of you who don't know, BNI Group meets once a week.
Speaker 3:It's we meet at 7AM. It's like a big networking group. You know, we ask for specific referrals. And I called the woman. I'm the vice president of the group.
Speaker 3:And I called and said, I have to step down and leave the group immediately. Like, oh, no. We love you, Clint. Blah, blah, blah. I'm just like, Karen, the president's name is Karen.
Speaker 3:I'm like, I'm so sorry. But I'm running the math in my head. That's an investment of two hundred and twenty hours per year roughly. I'm like, over the next year, that two hundred and twenty hours during my most productive time of day is costing me potentially like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like over the next year, just shudder to think of throwing away two twenty hours.
Speaker 3:Because I think of like how much I could just more thoroughly document the internal procedures, develop new marketing strategies, you know, write more, all this and that.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. I think that's right. That's all fair. And I think the only point I'm I'm getting at is that it's not enough to just want to get better and more productive at the things you're currently doing, that you also have to keep in mind that the longer term vision Yeah. Of what success looks right looks like, that that it's the right dream that you're you're heading Yeah.
Brian Casel:And Yeah. And I think this is the thing that often gets lost in in all of these conversations and articles and books about productivity and getting things done. Look. No matter what app you're using, what no matter what system you're using, no matter what your schedule is, it it doesn't matter how how efficient you are with managing your time. If you're working on the wrong things in the wrong sequence, then you're not gonna get to those big goals.
Brian Casel:It's just as simple as that.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Brian Casel:And that that was another, you know, big lesson that I feel like I've finally internalized over the last year is being strategic about what you're working on. I've I've talked about this before, but not so so okay. Like, you set out the goals for the year, like, the two or three big things that you wanna really, leap ahead this year. But when you start to break it down by month, this is where it becomes super important to be strategic. Like, what are those three to five things that need to get done in the month of November?
Brian Casel:And how are those things contributing? And thinking ahead to those things, and then, you know, and then from there, you know, breaking it out by week, like, and then by day, you know, instead of before, which was I work on the web, so I'm just gonna work on stuff on the web every day, and I'll just work on whatever comes across my desk or whatever I kinda feel like doing. That's the kind of thing that gets you into that treadmill of just being busy and not actually leveling up and not frankly, just not thinking about the future. And, you know, the thing that like, talking about mood, Jordan, you you mentioned that.
Jordan Gal:Like Yeah.
Brian Casel:I definitely get into a couple of nights a month. I'll come home and, you know, my wife and I basically have dinner every night together. And and it's it's a very clear distinction of my mood at the dinner table. Like, if if I didn't if I didn't get at least one thing of of meaning one meaningful thing done today, you don't wanna talk to me. I'm not I'm not a good I'm not I'm not gonna be nice.
Brian Casel:I'm gonna be an asshole. You know? I'm just not in the mood. And it's and and so I I think that's where this productivity, you know, kind of stuff comes home for me. It's like, it makes me, in a way, like, feel like I'm I'm I'm being a better person.
Brian Casel:I'm being a better husband and and and and father now. And it's like, when I'm responsible with what I get done early in the day. Yes.
Speaker 3:And and I Completely agree.
Brian Casel:And, you know, like Clint, I I'm not waking up at 04:30, but, you know, I I'm routinely getting up around six now. And I've strongly feel like the morning is my time. I love the morning. I it's you know, if I can get my main things done before lunch, then then I'm on a good I'm I'm on the right track. The afternoon, I'm already pretty tired.
Brian Casel:I I can't expect myself to get a whole lot done in the afternoon. So so that's why I like to do, you know, calls and and just, like, random catching up on on stuff in the afternoon. But, if if the big hit list is not done by then, then it's, you know, not gonna be a good day.
Speaker 3:I think, you know, just one one other point here is, like, one thing that I always kind of emphasize is I think if your your why, like, your motivating factor is really powerful and driving too, that's just another thing that's gonna push you day in and day out regardless of of everything else. You know, I regardless of any kind of, like, financial stuff, what I work for is I have a cork board in the office two doors down because we moved into a new office. And it's, like, thank you notes from students who've taken my courses and just, like, you know, handwritten notes that people write and, like, thank me. And like, at the end of the day, when I'm getting up like super early and I'm like writing stuff and I'm like I remember I had this terrifying feeling over the summer. I was getting up at that point at 03:45 so I could write because I was writing the 6 figure freelancer workbook.
Speaker 3:And I was I was I had this moment of terror. I told you, Brian, about it where I'm like, oh my god. Like, what if I write this whole book and like, it just doesn't help anybody? And I remember the first email I printed out from a guy who like, he I walked him through the material. The next day he's like, I've been implementing this stuff right away.
Speaker 3:Like, here's the impact it's having on my life. And knowing that, you know, all all other kind of like financial goals aside, at the end of the day, I feel like if you're doing something, know, the you'd you'd ask a question, when we were talking before this, Brian, about, like, how do we avoid overworking ourselves? I think if your why, if your motivating factor, if you you if if it's fulfilling for you, you're never gonna get tired of it. I know for me, at least, like, I I at the end of every day, I'm exhausted because I've done a lot. But, like, I can't wait to just sleep and be recharged and do it again because I feel like I'm what I'm doing is, like, having an impact.
Speaker 3:You know? And I I time management and all that productivity is is great. Like, I love doing things more efficiently, but, it's it's doing the right things. And for me, it's just, finding things that really make you fulfilled. Like, when they make money too, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:But Yeah. Having meaning behind it is great.
Brian Casel:Yeah. You know, like, like, totally honest about our day to day and and, you know so this year, we had our first child, my my daughter. She's about eight and a half months old now, and, my wife and I split the week. So she's part time, and I'm basically part time. And, so three days a week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I'm home with her until about 03:30, 04:00 in the afternoon.
Brian Casel:And I've had to accept, the fact that I'm just not gonna get a whole lot done on those three days a week. And, look, I love being home with my daughter and and just having that kind of flexibility in what I do in my business. I I feel extremely lucky lucky to be in this position where I get to be home, and we don't have to do daycare or whatever. And it's amazing being with her. But, you know, I think you guys can relate to this.
Brian Casel:I I'm a business owner, and I work on my business every day. And having these bits and pieces of productivity on those three days a week is some days, it's like, man, I I wish I can get so much more done, and it's and I and today's Friday. And so Mondays and Fridays, I'm here in the office full time, and I oh, man. I look forward to these days. Get I get, like, a good eight hours in the office getting stuff done, and it's it just feels good.
Brian Casel:It feels like this is the routine that I need. You know, of course, I this is also a day that I don't get to to see her, you know, very much. So it's it's it's a tricky balance once you once you start having little kids, and I think a lot of people in our audience can kinda relate to that. But, yeah. It's, you know, it's just something that I'm that I'm working as we talk through this, like, productivity stuff and staying staying, you know, active in our businesses from every single day, it's it's tough to balance when you have little kids and and a family.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Brian Casel:I'm not sure there's there's really, like, an answer to that.
Jordan Gal:It's just No. It's it's just that it's an ongoing universal thing to deal with.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I actually oh, sorry. No. Go ahead.
Jordan Gal:No. I was just gonna say that it yeah. It's very confusing because it it hits from all different directions. It's very motivating on one end. And then on the other hand, it's a lot of pressure and then you like spending time with them and then you feel guilty of it not working and then when you're working, you feel good that you're making progress but you feel guilty about spending time with your kids.
Jordan Gal:It's like there's no there's no answer. It's just kind of always finding a way. But I think I think the only thing that you can say is that you will definitely regret if you if you ignore your family too much at the expense. Know, if you focus too much on business at the expense of your family, you're you're definitely going to regret it. Doesn't matter how successful you are, you're gonna look back on that, and regret it.
Jordan Gal:So that's that's almost like one of my limits. Like, okay. Not it doesn't matter what I want. Not gonna let that happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So yeah. Totally.
Brian Casel:I think I I remember Alan Branch saying once not not to us. We we spoke to Alan Branch last week on this podcast, but I I think I was listening to him on on somewhere else or maybe he wrote this or something. He said, you know, what what do you want your your kids' memory of you to be from their childhood? Like, the the dad who was always working or and or always taking off or was taking phone calls and doing emails while he was hanging out or the dad who was there. So it's like, it kinda reminds you of what are we really doing this for?
Brian Casel:You know, I I want my family and and my kids to grow up, you know, comfortable and and have everything they want and and all that. And but at the end of the day, like, we do this so that we can put in the time and and be there and get and give them the attention. You know?
Speaker 3:And that that just reminds me of one, just quick story over the summer. Had crazy, you know, client work coming in and stuff, and my girlfriend and I went to Block Island for a whopping one day vacation. So we drove up there, we took the ferry over, took a moped round. And she was taking pictures the whole time and there were lot of pictures that I didn't realise I was in the shot. And at the end of the day she showed me, we were doing all these hikes and this beautiful scenery and everything, but all at my mind is going a million miles an hour thinking like, gotta get back.
Speaker 3:I have to type this proposal. I have this, you know, I have to get the spec sheet to the developers, all this and that. At the end of the day, she showed me, some of the shots and there was just like the most pained expression on my face. It was terrible. And I just laughed.
Speaker 3:I mean, it wasn't that funny. The next day I called her and I was like, Baby, I promise that once this stuff wraps up, that won't happen again. Because in my head, I was like, what the f am I working for? What good is all the money in the world if I can't the stuff that I'm working for, moments like that, I can't even enjoy them. I was like, I'd rather, you know, make a lot less money and be able to be fully present.
Speaker 3:You know, I I told her when we started in our relationship, was like, I'm I'm I'm really pushing hard to to make a lot of things happen, But I promise you that the time that I'm with you, you're gonna have me a 100%. Like, I'm not gonna be checking email. I'm not gonna be pulled off. And so that day was like a real sharp, you know, pain for me because I realized like I had violated what I promised her. And was just a powerful moment of in the end, what good is it if you're working so hard towards something, having been able to afford moments like that but you can't enjoy them because you're just thinking about work.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. That's the balance a lot of us focus on and look at the freedom side of things and working on the web and doing what we do gives you the freedom. And there's always a push and pull between all these different forces. I think, you know, I think the the difficult thing and the thing that always sticks out in my mind is that, you know, you want your cake and to eat it too, but I I almost expect that of myself. I want both.
Jordan Gal:I want freedom and financial success.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Jordan Gal:And I'm determined to be, you know, exceptional in that way in figuring it out. But before that actually happens, because it hasn't happened yet, you can't you can't screw up the really important things. You know, and it it happens every day. I I go upstairs and to help with cooking dinner or something, hanging out with the kids while my wife is cooking or vice versa. And I'm looking at my phone, I'm like, what the fuck do I care about what email is coming in next?
Jordan Gal:Like, put the thing down and sit down on like the silly letter blocks and, like, play doctor, man. Relax.
Speaker 3:Gotta uninstall email out on the phone. I removed it completely. It's been so liberated.
Brian Casel:So so let me Get shit straight,
Speaker 3:man. Yeah. Right.
Brian Casel:So alright. Let's let's kinda finish off here talking specifically about email because productivity, email, that's what most people, you know, associate. Right? I I wouldn't personally, I wouldn't go, you know, so far as removing email from the phone because I I do enjoy checking email on on the phone when I when I need to. I I'm I fall into the really bad habit of checking it too often, like, at night, and when I first wake up in the morning, you know, I I gotta stop doing that on on the phone.
Brian Casel:I like, so but my little rant here about about email is is this. All of these damn apps, like, trying to reinvent email or trying to give me some new system to hide my email from my site, you know, Get out of here. Like, it's it's e it's email. It's there. It's not gonna go away.
Brian Casel:It's always gonna come in. You know? Just that's life. It's been email's been around for thirty years. It's not going anywhere.
Brian Casel:You know? I mean, even Google just came out with inbox, like their new inbox thing, and I was testing that out on my personal account. I had to turn it off after like five days, fine. The UI looks beautiful. It's not It looks good, and you can click around it, and it's pretty slick.
Brian Casel:But, you know, they're trying to categorize all my stuff into buckets. And literally, by the second day, I remember purposefully keeping like three emails marked as unread, because I need to deal with them later. And by day three, I couldn't find them. They were not there. And and then by day four, I I forgot about them, and day five was like, oh, wait.
Brian Casel:There was something, you know. So it's like, don't organize my email. Like, I'm look. I'm just gonna go out there and say, I'm fine with not having inbox zero. Most days, have about inbox 30, you know, across my different email accounts.
Brian Casel:I usually have about 30 emails that are waiting for my attention. And I've seen them. I've seen the subject lines. I've seen who they're from. I know I know what they're about.
Brian Casel:And and now, I'm at this point where it's like, you know, I can kind of mentally, you know, categorize and prioritize. Say, you know, certain things are look, they're just gonna have to wait a couple of days. I mean, I'll I'll I reply to everyone. I don't miss an email. I reply to everyone.
Brian Casel:But some things are just more important than others. I mean, what do you guys think?
Speaker 3:I mean, for me, I guess I'm the ant. I don't know. Email to me has just been the biggest time suck. I mean, my my my thing about email in the morning, number one is, like, automatically, you're thinking about other things. I I discard that time with with everything I have.
Brian Casel:I don't I I agree. Like, I like, you shouldn't check email in the morning. Yep. And when I do that, I'm I'm I know in my mind, like, oh, I shouldn't do this right now, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I that it that's exactly, you know, the the trap that I would fall into. So that's why I took that step of of just completely removing it from my phone. So I can't know, people are like, well, emailed it to you. And I'm just like, I don't have email on their phone.
Speaker 3:They're like, what do you mean? You don't have a smartphone? I'm like, no, I do. But I've uninstalled the email application. So that, I mean, to me again, it's just habits.
Speaker 3:So like that, I eliminated the possibility that I could even check it, number one. Number two, I experimented with a bunch of different systems to just batch process my email. So by that, I mean, I check email from 11:30 to 12:15, then I do it again at 03:30, and then again at about 05:30. So I was originally using this email blocking tool called Chrome Website Blocker and just setting small windows of time where Gmail is accessible. And then I have a link in another browser that will open up the Gmail Compose window without opening my inbox.
Speaker 3:So I can fire off emails, but I don't get responses. Like, can't it won't open my inbox. And doing that, you know, has just dramatically increased my productivity. Because, you know, the thing with the phone too is like, I I have what I call the touch at once rule. I mean, it's it's from Ultimate Sales Machine.
Speaker 3:It's like, I don't I never want to reread an email. So I feel like if I if I if I had email on my phone and I saw an email, like, why would I then wanna have to reread it and revisit it when I'm then going back to my computer and like handling it? It's just sort of duplicating that effort. And some stuff I guess you could respond to right there, but like I also I use the Gmail keyboard shortcuts so that I can very quickly and I in my blog post which you guys can link to, I I just screencast of it, where I don't use the mouse. You know, it's like I hit r to reply, then tab, enter to send, then the curly brace forward to just I do linear email processing.
Speaker 3:So I don't look at my, like, my full inbox. I just go one email at a time, and I just pound through them.
Brian Casel:You know? Okay. So let me let me kinda push back on some of this, though.
Dan Norris:Sure.
Brian Casel:Because, like, the the batch email like, getting the whole idea of getting to inbox zero. Right? Yep. I I just don't think that's as efficient as it can be. I for me, personally, and I think that other people too, you should be okay with prioritizing certain emails over others.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Jordan Gal:The ones that are gonna make you money and the ones that aren't. Yep.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And and, like so, like, I get some emails like, a couple of emails per day from my team who escalate stuff to me. Like, they're doing customer support or customer sales stuff, and they they they need my answer to something in order for them to do their jobs well. And that's understandable. So I need them to escalate stuff to me.
Brian Casel:And I I tend to prioritize those, you know. And then, like, other things, like, I I get a lot of replies to my newsletter now, which I love reading and replying to every one of those, but I don't make those a high priority. I'll go through and batch reply to those, like, later on. Well,
Speaker 3:just just one one sort of point to that. There are some emails. So I forward a lot of emails, not a not a ton, but some high priority emails that require a little bit longer thought and response. Like, it's, you know, someone asking for, I I don't know, think of something that requires, you know, more than just, like, a quick reply. I forward that into Asana, which is a project management software, and then that becomes one of my, like, big to dos, you know, sort of critical items for the next day where it's it's not just, like, you know, got it.
Brian Casel:Better. You know? I've I've heard of that too, like, people kind of, you know, moving out of email and then into a project management tool. Again, like, I I'm still okay. Like, sometimes, this happens a lot.
Brian Casel:I I'll get an email from someone, and I and I'll open it for one second, and I see that, okay, this is definitely gonna require, like, ten to twenty minutes of my time to write something. So I'll just mark it as unread, and I know it's there, and and I might let it wait for three days if I have to. You you know, I mean, trying trying to respect other people's time, of course. Like, if if they're really waiting on me to get back to them and and it's holding them up in some way, then, of course, you know, I'm gonna do everything that I can to get back to them quickly. But sometimes there are just these I I think Jason Fried, talked about it, like, these, like, slow what is it?
Brian Casel:Like, slow meetings or something like like these meetings that just happen over a week or two because it's over email. It's and it's like you don't have to meet in person or you don't have to do a phone call. And and that's fine. Like, it's not urgent. It it we can discuss this and have a conversation about it over five or six emails over fourteen days, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Brian Casel:Like, you know, I I've some a lot of situations where that's perfectly acceptable, and and I just I just know that it's in my email. And then, you know, I I do agree with with the with your trick of, you know, saying, okay, 11AM, 3PM. Those are the times. Like, I definitely need to do a better job of not even looking at the email until those times. But yeah.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Like, know, I just see a lot of these plug ins and apps and
Speaker 3:things that try to, like, recap I know. I I think I think, like, it's it's look. Again, it's, like, to each his own. I just personally I know how off track I get. You know, I was using RescueTime, that rescuetime.com plugin.
Speaker 3:And I looked at my, you know, my report the other week. I'm like, Jesus Christ. Like, you know, I spent, like, eight hours of my week just, like, in my inbox. And I was like, this is just terribly inefficient. Again, so it's every sort of if if you're cool with opening up your inbox and just like letting stuff sit, for me that becomes a problem because then it's like, then I have to remember at some point to then go back and like reply to that person.
Speaker 3:That's for some people, you know, it just it's it just how I my system works. Like, everyone has their own. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:My my system is I mean, it's barely a system. I I have inbox 30,000. I just I just see it I see it as a search engine. I just don't care to, like, move things around. So I just leave the things unread that are actually important.
Jordan Gal:I use priority inbox, so that helps with the the stars and keeping things separate. But I I
Brian Casel:think I don't use priority inbox.
Jordan Gal:That No. It's good.
Brian Casel:I I've always wondered about that. Like, I what I use in Gmail is, like, unread first. Like, just show me all the unread at the top and Yeah.
Jordan Gal:That's fine. Yeah. Same kind of thing.
Brian Casel:But, like, how does prior priority inbox actually work, and how does it benefit? Like, I I don't really understand that system.
Jordan Gal:I think I use it the same way that you use the you know, unread, I'm assuming what that means is it keeps the unreads in, like, its own little section up top. Yep. Yeah. So that's I I I use priority inbox the same way, although it has some stars in the third section, but but either way. But I think what we're talking about right now are, like, these techniques to deal with it.
Jordan Gal:I think the larger, more important point is that email and things like it make you very reactive to what comes in and the real work, the real progress that moves you forward is not reactive, it's proactive. And so whatever system you wanna come up with or, you know, however you need your brain to have email in its own little, you know, area of your work life, you have to just deal with the fact that email is an excuse to just react and check and do things for other people and feel like you're busy. But the real progress in your business comes when you set that aside and you go for two hours and create something new and move something forward and call someone and look for a partnership and and that's just, you know, the exact opposite of email. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I I heard a great quote. I believe it was by Tim Ferriss. He said the email is like masturbation. It's like it it simulates, you know, the act of, you know, it feels good. It feels like you're you're getting stuff done, but, you know, in the end, it's it's not.
Speaker 3:You know, it's just sort of very much moving to that reactionary mode. So
Brian Casel:Yeah. Totally. And but I I I will just say this final thing to push back on on that sort of thing from Tim Ferriss is that, like, look. Email is still a core communication channel that we still all deal with, and you can't deny that.
Speaker 3:Oh, totally.
Brian Casel:And and so and it and it's essential that we do stay in touch with people, like, especially our teammates. Yep. And so what what I'm saying is, like, I like, personally, I used to be extremely reactive on email, and it and it caused me to get nothing meaningful done. It's because, like, anytime someone asked me a question, I responded. And then, like, early days of my freelancing career, I would be responding to clients on a Sunday night over if if they sent me an
Speaker 3:email, which was Me too.
Brian Casel:Awful. Like, you don't ever wanna do that because you set then you set the expectation that your your guy responds on Sunday night. You know? And I think I've after years of this, I I've come I'm now at this point where, you know, I I see these questions come in or I people need something from me, and and I feel like I do a pretty good job of of saying, like, okay. This is not urgent.
Brian Casel:I can get to this tomorrow, or I can even get to this later in the week if I have to. And and I think it's not gonna hold them up if I if I do that. So that's fine. And then this is okay. This needs to something's holding up, and and they're waiting on me.
Brian Casel:And, just I don't know. I I think it's just like training like, telling yourself it's okay to let someone wait if it's not gonna hold them up. You know? I don't know.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. No. I I agree. I'm just a little upset that we didn't, you know, end things off with masturbation as as the last topic that we left our listeners with. And with that.
Jordan Gal:I bring up masturbation just once more just to make sure it's the last thing people think about when they turn off this episode.
Brian Casel:That's that's the money shot
Speaker 3:right there.
Dan Norris:That is not too far.
Speaker 3:Too far. Funny because I said that at the charity event the other night. I did a five minute in between talk, and I used that line. My talk was like productivity tricks. And so I I said that line and like everyone laughed and and then Ryan Lee gave his talk and he kept referring back to it.
Speaker 3:He kept being like, yeah. Right? Masturbation. Right, Clint?
Jordan Gal:Cool, man. Well, Clint, thank you very much for Yeah. For coming on and for, you know, helping us make a little bit of progress on this front.
Speaker 3:Thank guys. You. Thank you
Brian Casel:for all
Speaker 3:the work that you do. Love I love listening to your show and, you know, very inspiring stuff coming out from both of you. So appreciate it.
Jordan Gal:It's our pleasure, man. Clint, where can people get in touch with you and hear more about you? I know myself personally, I need to take some, more of your advice. Where can people find you?
Speaker 3:Sure. They can go to Clint, c l I n t, Warren, w a r r e n dot com. And and, Brian, you're gonna love this. I if you want to connect with me on Twitter, I will I will do the Twitter. I I always I never touched it for so long because it it wasn't productive.
Speaker 3:It's just Clinton, c o I n t o n, underscore Warren. And you can connect with me on both those places. So thank you.
Brian Casel:Very cool. Yeah. Thanks, Clint, for coming on. This was awesome.
Speaker 3:Anytime, guys.
Brian Casel:Yeah. We'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 3:Alright. Catch you later. See you. Bye.
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