[52] Exactly How to Build a Sales Funnel From Scratch, and Why
This is Bootstrap Web episode 52. This is the podcast for you, founder, who learns by doing as you're bootstrapping your business online just like we are. And today, we're gonna talk about a really interesting topic, one that comes up all the time. We are gonna talk about how to build a sales funnel from scratch, and we'll cover a little bit of why a sales funnel is so important and, again, exactly how to set one up. So I am Jordan.
Brian Casel:And I'm Brian.
Jordan Gal:Excellent. Let's, let's do this. Today's topic, you kinda see it all over the web. Right? Just crops up everywhere.
Jordan Gal:Everyone talks about funnels, funnel marketing funnel, sales funnel, email funnel, webinar funnel. It's just kind of a topic that pervades, but I think with good reason.
Brian Casel:Yeah. You know you know, I we do see it everywhere, especially if you're paying attention to all the marketing blogs and the marketing podcasts and and that kind of world. But at the same time, I I'm in contact with a lot of people, and I'm in this group myself, have been for years, who don't pay enough attention to building a sales funnel and really understanding how the sales funnel works. And and just like the very basic building blocks of how to put things in place early on in your business. You know, I see a lot of businesses just starting up, new freelancers, moving into products, building your first product.
Brian Casel:How to build and launch the product is one thing, but then how do you actually put the the engine in place that's going to acquire customers? I feel like a lot of people are are struggling with that. Yes. And I I mean, I continue to struggle with it myself. So I'm really excited to to kinda hear your your teachings on this subject.
Jordan Gal:Yes. And I and I think understanding the the why of, why why to build a sales funnel is really important because that motivates you to figure out how to do it. Right? If you if you see it in the right context as a critical piece of your marketing strategy, I think that motivates you to actually get it done. Because it it's not that easy to get done.
Jordan Gal:You know, it Yeah. Some sometimes it can sound easy, but it's still complicated. You gotta bang your head up against the wall. You have to think about your customer. You have to write a lot.
Jordan Gal:You have to really think about it. And that's not that easy. It's a lot easier to respond to emails and, you know, do other things that you used to. But before we take a deep dive into the the sales funnel stuff, why don't we back out of touch and just give a quick update on, what's been happening? Brian, what's going on on your side at the, you know, December here?
Brian Casel:Yeah. So so actually, was kinda cool. You and I got to got to meet up for a little while yesterday. Was it yesterday?
Jordan Gal:Two days ago?
Brian Casel:Two days ago. Looked down. In New In in New York City. You're you're in town. So so I was in I was in town as well.
Brian Casel:We grabbed coffee. It was kinda cool to, you know, meet up meet up in person again.
Jordan Gal:Real life. It was Yeah. Gotta do it every once in while.
Brian Casel:So so I've been listening to Rob Walling's new, it's an audio documentary, which kinda follows him and his developer, Derek, over the course of their launch of Drip. And you can check that out at startupstoriespodcast.com. So I actually went through the whole thing. It's about two hours. It's basically set up as like a a one episode of a of a podcast in iTunes, but it's basically like an audio documentary.
Brian Casel:And what it is is they recorded about five, ten minute updates, about every week for something like nine months. Like, the nine month period from, like, going from zero to, you know, their first paying customers and a little bit beyond. Really, really cool. You know? I mean, you know, I like like, I think you and and a lot of other people in our audience here, we probably listen to startups for the rest of us.
Brian Casel:And I'm actually a Drip customer as well. Actually, you are too. So Same here. You know, we we kind of know the the general story of of how Rob launched Drip. You know, we kinda know, like, the bullet points and the outlines, but this is really, like, a week to week behind the scenes kinda gives you their thought process as things are going on and and the things that they're learning along the way.
Brian Casel:And and even when you kinda know it for on the surface level, there are a lot of really interesting insights, that came through in this in this recording. I I I highly recommend you guys check it out. It's it's pretty awesome. The big takeaway for me was really how laser focused Rob is when it comes to figuring out who is Drip's ideal or who is their actual customer. You know?
Brian Casel:And and over the course of the early days of Drip, like, they really changed their idea of of who that customer is. I think in the early days, it was really like, drip was really just kind of like a a widget that you would use in conjunction with with a Mailchimp or an Aweber. And then later on, they kind of evolved into really like a an email automation tool. Kind of like a no longer to use with a Mailchimp, but it's like an all encompassing, like, just you know, you can do all of your email marketing on Drip. And it was interesting to hear Rob, like, how they went through that process.
Brian Casel:Like, when they hit that point where they were like, wait a minute. Maybe maybe Drip is turning into something that that we didn't expect that it would be from the start. And at that point, it wasn't like they were just kinda brainstorming around this stuff. It was like, okay. Let's go to our customers, figure out who's using it, who's not yet using it, and how are they actually gonna use it?
Brian Casel:How do they need to use it in their business? What where are they at in their business? You know? It's just all about knowing your customer, and this documentary really shows how how how, you know Rob is truly like a master of this stuff of, like, knowing who that market is and and, like, building the product for them. And I I mean, personally, I'm I'm really glad that they went the direction that they did at getting into that email automation stuff, building that that rules engine, because it it did allow me to get on board with drip.
Brian Casel:Because in in the early days, it I was not in that early group of customers because it just didn't fit my personal needs. And I think a lot of people are in this group, like, in between a Mailchimp and, like, an Infusionsoft.
Jordan Gal:Infusionsoft. Right.
Brian Casel:You know, you can still do the things that you need to do marketing wise, like the automation stuff. Not only just an like, a automated drip sequence. It does that really well, but then, you know, going beyond and and these behavioral, emails that get sent out. So That's really was
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Really interesting. You hear the saying that, you know, the business that wins is the business that understands their customer best. But this is this is it in, you know, in real life as opposed to in the abstract. And I I always like watching Rob because if I think about myself a few years ago and you evolve, you get better at this.
Jordan Gal:And looking at Rob is just looking like further ahead. Like where do you want to evolve to, you know, in a few years that it's almost like listening to yourself a few years from now, just more experience, just better understanding. And the fact that he's focusing so much on who the customer is, you know, it it tells you that that's, you know, that's the next level of of understanding that that you need to have, to be successful. But I I imagine it was a, you know, a difficult and kind of scary thing. And if it started out as this very focused product, and it's always scary to just start adding and let this thing grow and morph into something else.
Jordan Gal:But if you do have the right people in mind and you're building it for them, then I guess you can have the the confidence that it's not just getting out of hand and you're just doing things that you think are cool, but it's it's things that people are actually asking for and and need.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Exactly. And I think it's it's that thing, you know, because building anything from from the ground up, you're gonna hit a bunch of walls. You're gonna hit a bunch of these roadblocks and challenges. And what Rob did so well, and it really comes through in this documentary, is, like, every time they hit a a little bit of a a hurdle or, a roadblock Mhmm.
Brian Casel:The first thing that he did was go straight to his early access list. Those customers who have expressed some interest and I think a couple times, they ran a survey. They they they were very strategic about the types of questions they ask in the survey, and then they analyze, and they talk about it. And then he gets into, like, these email conversations with with key people in his audience who you know, just so that he can really understand the problem. So you you can, like, bat this around in your head, you know, alone in isolation, and you're not gonna get anywhere.
Brian Casel:But when you hit these challenges, you just go straight to your customer, and that basically solves the problem for you.
Jordan Gal:Right. Makes makes you realize, like, okay. We we should be doing more of that.
Brian Casel:Yep. Yep. Exactly. What else? Updates.
Brian Casel:So, in the last couple of episodes, we were talking about how I'm starting to do webinars for Restaurant Engine.
Jordan Gal:Yes.
Brian Casel:Well, I did one, in November. I was I was happy to be able to squeeze it in just before Thanksgiving, but it was basically a complete failure. Everything that could have gone wrong, basically did go wrong in this in this webinar. I had a bunch of people register for it, which was good. And, so good registration rates.
Brian Casel:The landing page worked pretty well, And then everything went downhill from there. I let's see. First, I sent out the reminder emails, like, the day of the webinar, you know. Here's the here's the link to join live, and that link was broken. Damn.
Brian Casel:The same same one with, like, the email that went out an hour before, same link, same broken landing page. I was, in a way, lucky that someone replied to that email, like, three minutes before the webinar was supposed to start and tell me that, yeah, that link doesn't work. And I was like, oh, shit. Damn. So, yeah, I just kinda scrambled and sent, a last minute email.
Brian Casel:Here's the corrected link. Still had a you know, probably less I had about 20 people show up on on the webinar. That probably could have been, you know, a lot more, had the link been fixed. And then during the webinar, first half an hour, forty minutes went really well, and then my Internet connection dropped out. So I'm I'm out of the webinar for, like, two minutes.
Brian Casel:Internet come comes back on, and I'm right back in it. I'm using Google plus Hangouts. So that wasn't a problem. But when I came back in, it's now showing my camera and it's not showing my slides anymore. And I didn't know this.
Jordan Gal:It's just it's just stressed out, Brian, trying to make a pitch without the benefit of the material that you're trying to use to pitch?
Brian Casel:Well, the the really kinda the the real big fail here is that I didn't even know. Like, I was pretty comfortable given the pitch, frankly. I I I had kinda rehearsed it once, and I I had all these slides prepared and and like explaining what I'm talking about, and really showing you examples. I've got testimonials, and like screenshots, and all this stuff. And I'm just talking through it, and I have no idea that for twenty minutes straight, people are just seeing my face talking through it, and they're not seeing the slides that I prepared.
Brian Casel:I didn't know this until after the whole thing was done. No wonder there were no sign ups on this. So so so it's a little bit so, I mean, you know, those were kinda technical mishaps. Those would would definitely be fixed the next time around, and I will be doing another one. Well, I'm not really doing one in December because now I'm kind of reworking the the marketing funnel for Restaurant Engine.
Brian Casel:And that's why I'm really excited about this episode. It's it's pretty timely for me. I'm I'll I'll give you kinda more details on this in the next couple of episodes as things really, roll out, and I'm gonna start kind of, you know, promoting this new funnel in January and February. And I'll have some actual results to to look at. But, basically, right now, I'm recreating our top of the funnel lead magnet, the video series, and I'll still be doing that'll be, like, phase one.
Brian Casel:And then phase two would be getting customers through that and then onto a webinar.
Jordan Gal:Alright. So are we are we laughing at the at the webinar mistakes or episode yet? Right? It's like, what what are you gonna do?
Brian Casel:I I wouldn't mention it here if I'm not, you know
Jordan Gal:Right. Right. If you're
Brian Casel:still willing to laugh at it.
Jordan Gal:So Exactly. The the real failures, we don't really talk about. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, what are you gonna do?
Jordan Gal:Right? This this is the danger of a live event, the danger of relying on, right, all these things that need to happen a certain way at a certain time. Things go wrong. Wi Fi fades out. So, I mean, it's easier from the outside, but you gotta chalk it up to, okay.
Jordan Gal:Gotta just have to do it better next time, and definitely won't make the same mistakes. Right. If if there's anything yeah. I think you just have to look at it and say, okay. What what went wrong?
Jordan Gal:What do I need to do to fix it? You know, let let's get somebody on the webinar that can ping me if something goes wrong. So I look. This is just a lesson. And
Brian Casel:Totally. And it's and it's kind of like the first one. I mean, I've done a couple of webinars here and there before, but this was the first one on Restaurant Engine. And and I'm still figuring out my way through the Google Hangouts for a live webinar and then adding in live chat and all this stuff. So back in in college when I used to, you know, play in in in bands and doing gigs and stuff.
Brian Casel:And, like, when you're in a new band, I always had this thought of, like, okay. Let's practice and practice and get a set together and really excited to get to that first gig and knowing for for what because I had been in a in a couple bands and going through this process. The first gig always sucks. Always dead. Always the worst.
Brian Casel:Like, everything that you practice in in the practice room goes terribly wrong once you're on stage for the first time. And once you go through this two or three times with new bands, you start to feel like, alright. Let's just get to that first gig and do it so that we can get to the second gig.
Jordan Gal:Just put it behind you.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Like, I'm really anxious to get to that second, third gig. And I know going in that the first one's gonna suck, but we have to just get through it. Yep. And that's kinda how how this was.
Brian Casel:Yep.
Jordan Gal:I like that. I think I think that's a good way to look at it. I've I've only done one real deal webinar with, like, paid I paid advertising and, you know, spent a thousand bucks to get people to it and all this. I was I was nervous as hell, but it felt so good to just just put it behind me. Like, okay.
Jordan Gal:You know, I now the next one, I just won't be as stressed about. And I I've done a
Brian Casel:Mhmm.
Jordan Gal:A bunch since, but not like that first one that was like it was just it was just pressure.
Brian Casel:Yep. Anyway, so So what's, what's up on your end? What what's your update?
Jordan Gal:So I continue my masochistic travel schedule, never staying in the same place for more than a week just to make things really difficult. No. But I I'm not complaining. I I was in Miami for Thanksgiving, with my family, and that's that's always fun. And then I went to New York where we saw each other and saw friends and family, for a week.
Jordan Gal:Now I'm back in Portland and heading back to Miami soon to be back with my family through New Year. So a lot of running around and and my my, you know, my
Brian Casel:gut Literally, like, corner to corner of The United States in within, like, a thirty day period.
Jordan Gal:And it it and maybe it sounds glamorous, but I'd really just rather be here in Portland relaxing with the fam and, like, being productive. But you gotta do it. It's family. You know, you gotta make it happen.
Brian Casel:It's the holidays.
Jordan Gal:What will say for it, while it is difficult to be productive, it changes your thinking. Just being out of the routine, just not being in the same physical space. Just it just shakes you up and makes you look at things differently, think differently. And I've just kind of been going with it and just saying, alright, so I'm not gonna be as productive, but I'm gonna take this time to think through a lot of things on the business. And that's that's where I'm at.
Jordan Gal:So right now, I feel very much like Cardhook is at a crossroads, and I need to decide on what the right path is for 2015. Right there
Brian Casel:And and the crossroads is kind of like your sales process. Right?
Jordan Gal:The crossroads is no. I'm thinking more strategically. Like, from a business point of view. Like, what am I doing? What am I trying to accomplish?
Jordan Gal:And what's the best way to accomplish it? Mhmm. So do I keep things exactly as they are? What's gonna happen in that scenario? Do I invest more money into it?
Jordan Gal:What would what you know, what's the likelihood what could happen under that scenario, and what's the likely likeliness? So it's really just like playing around with expected return. So, you know, like scenario one, I just keep doing things exactly as they are, where we'll end up twelve months from now. And, you know, the probability of that succeeding is very high because I'm already doing the same thing now. Scenario two, what if I drove in additional money?
Jordan Gal:What would I do with that money? Then looking at the numbers, what would happen over the next six to twelve months, and then assigning to that what is the likelihood, you know, like a percentage. And then so I just look at those those scenarios, and then I've been trying to think of, like, other scenarios and partnerships and everything and just just trying to maximize my expected return and looking at different scenarios.
Brian Casel:But Yeah.
Jordan Gal:But regardless And
Brian Casel:think thinking with the end in mind and and, and this is a good time of year to do that. Right? Like around the turn of the year, like how is 2015 gonna look?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Yeah. This is it. It's, you know, it's sure, it's an arbitrary number. January 1, but it it has a big impact.
Jordan Gal:And so along with along with these different scenarios and different approaches and strategies, I think what that's done is it is kinda it's maybe stressed because I just look I look at what I'm doing and the way I'm doing it, and I just I have to admit to myself, it is it is not achieving the the results that I want in the time frame that I want. And so what I'm starting to admit, what I'm starting to confront is the fact that not only do I need to change what I'm doing, I need to how I'm doing it, which is, you know, a much bigger issue. So in an effort to to correct that and and achieve the results that, you know, the ideas and the strategy in my head I believe can achieve, I'm really looking at not just like, you know, what I do on a day to day basis and how I set up my day and set up my calendar, but really, you know, should I be doing all these tasks? Can I hire someone? Yeah.
Jordan Gal:So that's kinda where I'm fanning out over the next few weeks and hoping to get things in order by January. So later this week, I have I have a conversation set with somebody who's has a lot of sales experience to see if I could hire someone to basically build me a sales team comprised of outsourcing and me providing the data and how that can lead up. Yeah. So just just trying to deal with the fact that I can't do everything, instead of just being upset about it, actually trying to to change it. So, yeah, that's that's what the next few weeks sounds like just because I wanna hit the ground running in January.
Jordan Gal:So that means, you know, putting putting things in order now.
Brian Casel:Very cool. Yeah. It'll be interesting to hear how things things play out over the next few months for, for what you're doing there. But, why don't we why don't we get on to we've got one new iTunes review. We'll get to that, and then we'll dive right into sales funnels.
Jordan Gal:Cool. Let let's talk about the, brilliant people who leave us iTunes reviews. Who who is it this week?
Brian Casel:Looks like it is from Josh Gates PDX. And that is a five star review from Josh. He says, one of the best podcasts on the web, period. Jordan and Brian provide great insight into issues the rest of us are facing when bootstrapping our own projects. The actionable tidbits that they that they provide are priceless.
Brian Casel:They're both an inspiration and a resource. They have helped me to launch my own productized service, and for that, I thank them. Keep up the great work, guys. Well, thank you, Josh.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. That's that's awesome. And, yeah, Josh, I've met and hung out with a few times here in Portland. Yeah. And, you know, thank you very much, Josh.
Jordan Gal:Appreciate it.
Brian Casel:That's I gotta make it out to Portland one of these days.
Jordan Gal:You do. You do. Just wait wait for the weather to turn and then bring your bring your appetite a game.
Brian Casel:I think that, that Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee episode really, put me over over the edge. I gotta get out there.
Jordan Gal:I watched it coffee. Night, I freaked out because they Jerry and Fred Armisen ate at the same table in the food pod that my wife and I, like, go to regularly. A few weeks Really? A few weeks ago, we we sitting at that table with my daughter, like, just covered in pasta and sauce. And then to, like, look at it and see, like, that's Wolfen Bear.
Jordan Gal:That's the you know, that's the Oh, wow. That's so fun. Pod. That was cool. I just loved how That's awesome.
Jordan Gal:The the hipster service counter. Oh, yeah. Like, fourteen minutes to get a coffee. Brilliant. Absolutely.
Jordan Gal:Brilliant. Can't help itself, man. Portlandia, you know, there's a reason it is what it is. It's because Yeah. It's based in in truth.
Jordan Gal:And then and then you just see, like, a documentary type thing, like Comedians in the Cars Getting Coffee, and it's like he just walks around and just encounters Portland. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm starting to love this place.
Jordan Gal:So, you know, being Miami and then New York, I came here. I felt like I could breathe again,
Brian Casel:you know?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. And Miami's stressful and New York's so intense and so hardcore and like competitive And they come here and they're like, oh, it's so quiet. Yeah. I could, you know, I could breathe again.
Brian Casel:Yeah. It seems like a really cool place. We're really and it seems like there's a really great scene, like, community. A lot of different communities. Right?
Brian Casel:There's like a design and art community and and, and then, of course, like, lot of bootstrappers and startups are are hanging out around there.
Jordan Gal:So Yeah. Yeah. It's Gotta gotta check
Brian Casel:that out.
Jordan Gal:I'm a big proponent. So let's, let's jump into this thing. So essentially, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna I'm gonna go through a modified version of a webinar I did, the one I just talked about, on how to build your sales funnel. You know, and this was to sell a course that I had and still have on how to build your sales funnel. So let's just go through this and then, you know, feel free to jump in with questions and clarification and Yeah.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I'm really excited to to hear this. I mean, I've heard your stuff on this before. You obviously, you know, know what you know what you're talking about with this stuff. And I've I've seen, you know, your, I didn't see your your entire webinar, but I've seen some of some of your videos on the same topic.
Brian Casel:And the way that you lay it out is really kinda easy easy and actionable, to implement. And as I understand it, you have kind of like a six step process for for putting this stuff in place. So why don't we, why don't we get right into
Jordan Gal:it? I do. Yeah. I've got a I've got six steps. But before we jump into the actual process, you know, what I mentioned before is it's really important to understand the the why.
Jordan Gal:And the why I try to put in as simple terms as possible. So alright. Let let's let's do this. Mhmm. So the the real reason that a sales funnel is important, the underlying reason for it is that when you have a website or a business in general and the only offer that you're making is for people to buy your product or to sign up for a consultation or sign up for a free trial.
Jordan Gal:Right? That that big buying action. If that's the only option that you give people, then that's the reason there's a very low conversion rate because you're asking a lot of people, especially if they don't know you and trust you. So the point of a sales funnel is nothing other than to provide a smaller alternative option with a corresponding higher conversion rate. Right?
Jordan Gal:So instead of sign up for a free trial, it's how about you take a sample abandoned cart campaign so you can see it for yourself. Right?
Brian Casel:Yeah. And I think you said one word in there that is so important and that is trust. Like, would you you just would not spend money with someone or with a company that you do not know and already trust.
Jordan Gal:Right.
Brian Casel:Right? And that's the whole point of this sales funnel.
Jordan Gal:That's exactly right.
Brian Casel:What you're building is basically you're manufacturing that trust. In customers.
Jordan Gal:What you're doing is you're earning the right to have the opportunity to build the trust. Because if if someone gets to your site and the only offer you make is that big buying action like a free trial, you you're counting on your website to build trust. And we all know that people don't read the whole site. They don't, you know, they don't consume everything you you give them. So so this sales funnel, this weigh in, you know, that starts off with the email address and all that.
Jordan Gal:All that is, it's just it's just giving yourself the opportunity, earning the opportunity to build trust.
Brian Casel:You know what? Let me actually step back here. I mean, there maybe as like a counterpoint to that or someone might push back and say, well, if the product solves a really painful prob problem, if, you know, if it's a solution to a problem, won't that just kind of sell itself?
Jordan Gal:Maybe. But that doesn't mean that this wouldn't improve it even if it's even if it's awesome. Right? If you take a 100 people to make the numbers easy and a a bad product has a 1% conversion rate and you're getting one out of a 100. And if you add a sales funnel, maybe you'll get 10 people opting in and then have the opportunity to put them through the funnel and two more of those 10 converts.
Jordan Gal:So now you have three out of a 100. If you have an amazing product that solves a really painful problem, maybe you're converting an amazing 10 out of a 100. That doesn't mean that if you had a sales funnel, you wouldn't be able to capture an additional 10 people, put them through the sales funnel, and capture another five. So regardless of what it is, it's just it's just smart business to to allow people who aren't quite ready to make that decision to go for the big buying action to give them an alternative action that those those people are willing to take. Look, in real life, it it's more complicated, but not that much more complicated.
Jordan Gal:Yesterday Yeah. The past few days, here's what I see in my email when I wake up. I see somebody opting in for the sample abandoned cart campaign and then three minutes later, they sign up for a Kartik account. So that person was ready to buy, but the sample campaign that they opted into first was almost like, yeah, why wouldn't I do that? And then when they get it, it was great looking and well executed.
Jordan Gal:And then they just followed along with the action that they were already gonna take.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And and I think the whole idea of, alright, there's a problem and this product solves that problem. Like, yes, that's essentially what makes a good product, right, is is you're solving a meaningful problem. But the from the customer's perspective, alright. They already have that problem.
Brian Casel:We know that. That's why they're on your site in the first place. But just because someone has a problem doesn't mean that they're ready to go out and spend money on it right right now. They they might identify that they have that problem, and then they'll start searching around for for different alternatives. Or they might consider going back and forth like, well, do I need a product, or can I just do this myself?
Brian Casel:So you need the the the point of the sales funnel and kind of, like, the educational section of the sales funnel is, like, is to kind of insert yourself in that customer's conversation that goes on in in their mind. And that might happen in just a matter of minutes, you know, from, like, free trial to paying customer. But more often, it happens over a couple of days to a couple of weeks where they're gonna come back and visit you again and again, compare you to some competitors, compare you to doing it themselves. Whole point of the sales funnel is to be a a little a little reminder, a little, like, touch point, you know, every every couple of days, and we're gonna get into the specifics. But that Yes.
Brian Casel:That's how I I kind of think of it. It's like the the problem is a given. Like, we know that that that's the problem is the kind of like what allows your product to exist. The sales funnel is what gets them from from just identifying with the problem to, okay, I'm ready to take out my credit card and buy now.
Jordan Gal:Right. And oftentimes, people don't directly and emotionally connect your solution to their actual problem and their goals. So that right. That's why we we write up we write about benefits instead of features on our on our sites. And that's we talk about the benefit because we're trying to connect what they're actually trying to achieve with our product.
Jordan Gal:But oftentimes, that's not an automatic. And so the sales funnel also allows you to guide someone and help them visualize how your product helps them achieve the actual results and goals that they're looking for that, you know, off the bat, they may they might not connect with. Yeah. Yep. And it's all.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's yeah. It's funny we're talking about it now, but it's it's just all part of, exactly what I'm what I'm gonna, you know, get into. So Yeah.
Jordan Gal:Totally. Alright. So so that's, like, the the why. Right? Then you look at your sales funnel as as five different pieces.
Jordan Gal:At least that's how I look at it to make it easy. The first part is traffic. The second part is leads. The third part is nurture. The fourth part is convert or offer.
Jordan Gal:And then the fifth part is the actual close of the sale. Like, they started the free trial. They, they signed up. What whatever it is that action you want them to take. So those three They paid.
Jordan Gal:Right. So those those three middle pieces, to capture leads, you need a lead magnet. To nurture leads, in this sales funnel, we're gonna talk about an email autoresponder. But the truth is it's very analogous between webinar and in person consultation or or anything because you're just right now, we're talking about an email autoresponder, but all that is is delivering value.
Brian Casel:So Yeah. We'll we'll give you a few different examples of ways
Jordan Gal:to All the webinar does is it does it in an hour instead of over, you know, a one week period. So it's still it's still the same. Still have to nurture. And then for conversion, you have to make an offer of some sort of call to action something. Alright.
Jordan Gal:So with that in mind, right, that's that's the why. And now I'll get into the this my six step process on on how to do this.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And, you know, actually, before we get get right into it, I wanna make a little bit of a distinction between because a couple of weeks ago, we did an episode on on the launch sequence. Right? For a brand new product, how do you go from zero to launch day? That's what I talked about with with the the productized course episode.
Brian Casel:I think what we're talking about here with a sales funnel is putting the engine in place and the pieces in place that will sustain, you know, first year, second year, third year of a business. Or if you've been in business for a while, you can kind of, like, plug this in.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. This is to take
Brian Casel:You know, this is that, like, ongoing sustain like, sustainable sales funnel beyond the launch.
Jordan Gal:Right. And this is just to take people who come across your product and don't know you yet, don't trust you yet, aren't ready to buy, and shepherds them through that process, builds trust, and then makes the offer after proving yourself instead of all the way upfront. So Mhmm. Well developed companies that are more mature have, like, a bunch of these at once. So one ad set leads to one landing page that has an opt in for one type of lead magnet and an autoresponder behind it and an offer.
Jordan Gal:And that's one they might have 20 of these things going on at the same time. So this is really focused on, you know, people in our situation like, okay, let's just build the first one and then start improving it, and then we'll worry about, doing it again. It's actually much much easier the second time around. Okay. So.
Brian Casel:Cool. So, so what's what's the very first step?
Jordan Gal:So I'll just say all six steps at once, and then we'll jump into the first one. So six steps. Number one are the customer avatar, like understanding who your customer is. Remember what Rob talked about, knowing who the customer is? The same type of thinking, the reason I put that first.
Jordan Gal:Because if you get that right, makes everything else easier. Mhmm. Step two is identifying the desired end result of your customer. What are they actually trying to achieve? Step three is the email nurture sequence.
Jordan Gal:Step four is the offer. Step five is the lead magnet. And step six is the software. So that might sound strange to you that we're the lead magnet.
Brian Casel:Yeah. When we were planning this episode, I was you told me about those that sequence of steps, and I heard you say the lead magnet is at the end. And and then you told me why that was. So that so that was an interesting thing. I think we'll get into it over the course of this process.
Brian Casel:But I guess yeah. So I you know? Yeah.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. So take it away. In in short, the lead magnet is infinitely more easy and more effective if you leave it off until you've done all this other work. Like, how can you create an effective lead magnet before you've really mapped out who your customer is? Like, how do you know what to what to offer them?
Brian Casel:Right.
Jordan Gal:So
Brian Casel:So tech so Mhmm. Technically, the lead magnet will be placed somewhere near the top of the funnel. That's right. Like, to capture those leads into the top, but you shouldn't really be creating that lead magnet until after you go through this this whole process.
Jordan Gal:Exactly right. Because then you'll be offering a lead magnet that makes sense, that adds value, that people are gonna be interested in. And lastly, it's a lot easier. After after like writing out a seven part email series, creating a lead magnet after that is a lot easier than just starting, you know, with a blank page at the beginning. And then last, and in many ways, least important is the is the software.
Jordan Gal:So, you know, people dive right into signing up for Aweber and Drip and all this other stuff. And the truth is the more you focus on the software, the less you focus on the customer. That that's not good for business. So the software is really something that should come at the end once you've already got everything set up. Exactly.
Jordan Gal:Alright. Cool. So the first part, I I write it out. I create a real customer avatar. I go to LinkedIn.
Jordan Gal:I do a search for, you know, ecommerce store manager. You know, ecommerce store owner, I like I take a picture. I write out demographics. How old is this person? Are they a man or woman?
Jordan Gal:What what do they do? What's their normal day like? So I I really write it out. And then I write like a little short bio, like a one or two page, you know, like, you know, Jack is 53 years old and he lives in Weston, Connecticut. And, this is how he got into the business and this is how many kids he has and how long you're going.
Jordan Gal:And then I get more into the business. Like, okay, this is how we started it. It's how many people, work for him. This is the revenue. These are his goals.
Jordan Gal:So just like as much detail as possible about this person's personal and business life so you can really put somebody in mind. That's why I put a picture, so you really try to get a good understanding of it.
Brian Casel:Yeah. You know, that's a really interesting piece of this. Creating that avatar and understanding your customer, like we've been talking about time and time again. And I think it's like you develop a a better and better picture of this as the the months and the years go on in your business and as you're talking to more and more customers and and as you're seeing who are the ones who are actually paying you. So on day one, in in the very beginning, early days of your business, you know, you should be doing a a whole bunch of research and and understanding as much as you can, but that should that understanding should continue to evolve over the years.
Brian Casel:And, like, just a great example, I was having dinner with my brother, last week, and we were talking about restaurant engine. And he was asking me he was like he was like, do you have any restaurants in Manhattan? And and that thought right? That question actually made me even think deeper into my customer avatar for restaurant engines. So, on the surface, it's like, who is my avatar?
Brian Casel:It's restaurants. It's like all restaurants. Right? And when he asked me that question, I started thinking, like, actually, I'm not sure. I I think we have a couple in Manhattan.
Brian Casel:But then I started thinking, like, you know what? As I think about, like, the major cities, you know, New York, Boston, Chicago, LA, You know, we have a couple here and there that are in those major cities, but the vast majority of our customers are not in major cities. And that was kind of like a big light bulb moment for me. This was just last week. I've been at this for over three years with Restaurant Engine, and it and I started to realize, you know what?
Brian Casel:Our customers are not necessarily in the major cities. I think they tend those probably tend to go with, like, higher priced agencies for their website. But but I also know that we're not, like, the the broke mom and pop corner store.
Jordan Gal:Right. In the struggle. You know?
Brian Casel:They they would not be affording or or thinking about paying for something like Restaurant Engine, but we are that we get a lot of restaurants in the suburbs. You know? We actually have a couple here in in Norwalk in my town, and they tend to be the ones who are killing it in their town. Like, they're the ones who are doing really good business in the small towns or in the suburban or, you know
Jordan Gal:Right. You need you need to know that.
Brian Casel:Yeah. So, like, that's like a detail that, like, now now I'm thinking about ways, like, how can I use that? And, like, how can I better understand, like, who they are, where they are, where they're coming from? And and that's the kind of thing that only revealed itself last week, three years into the business.
Jordan Gal:Right. So right. And so the benefit of of doing this first, not only do you have a much better probability of getting things right, it also makes it easier. If you have this person in mind, a specific person with a picture and with information, what you write and what you create for this person is is gonna be a lot better and more effective than if you were just creating it for restaurants. If you thought about the characteristics of this person, you know, they must feel like a big shot because they are a big shot in their in their smaller town.
Jordan Gal:And they have a certain amount of stress and they have a certain amount of employees and all these things that you fit into there as you're writing and creating content and email and lead magnet, all these things that you need to offer this person, you have an infinitely better chance of striking a chord with that content when you have somebody, you know, specific in in mind. Yep. Yep. So that's that's why that step is number one, and it sets the stage for
Brian Casel:I also really like your your tip there, to go on to LinkedIn and and search for that, that field. Right? Because then you could start to just kinda, like, spy on people and look into their lives and where where they work and where what they're doing and Where they get a better idea.
Jordan Gal:Where they went to school, where they used to work, who they're connected to. You just start to get a better feel. And, you know, everyone tells you when you write, pretend like you're writing to your buddy. And and that is your best writing because it's natural and and it has your voice. This is the same type of thing.
Jordan Gal:You write to generic restaurant owners, it's not gonna be very good. If you write to Sam who, you know, took over the restaurant after his, you know, dad, retired, and you you just you will connect infinitely better. Yep. Totally. So that's that's that's step one.
Jordan Gal:Step two is the desired end result of that customer. So take Sam who owns the restaurant in town that, you know, that's the big deal in town with all of his background and think about what he's actually trying to achieve. Is he just trying to get more customers? Is that the end result of what he wants? You know, does he want more time with his family?
Jordan Gal:Does he want a more automated business? Does he want to feel proud of his business? Does he wanna sell the business? So the better idea you can get of what they're actually trying to achieve, that actual end result, not just like the feature and, you know, make a little more money. Like, think about what this person actually wants and the So here's the concept.
Jordan Gal:If you identify the real desired end result of what this person is trying to achieve And all of your content is aimed toward helping them get there. So the the concept is the closer you can bring your prospect to their desired end result with your free content, the more likely they'll be to become a paying customer.
Brian Casel:Right.
Jordan Gal:So if you are the person and you're the company that helps them achieve their end result before even asking for a sale, that's how you increase the conversion rate. That's how you make the likelihood of them accepting your offer and taking you up on it, signing up for your service, your consulting, your software infinitely higher. So that's why we identify that desired end result. We see who this person is and what they're trying to achieve.
Brian Casel:Yeah. It's it's about really understanding not just the specific problem that your product solves, but why that problem matters so deeply to your customer that they're willing to pay good money for it.
Jordan Gal:Right. Nobody cares about what your what your software does.
Brian Casel:They care
Jordan Gal:about how it affects their life.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I mean, like, in my in my newsletter on Cast Jam, I the first question that I ask all new subscribers, again, I've talked about this, is, you know, what are you what what's your biggest goal over the next twelve months? And I I tend to think these days, I'm I'm thinking that marketing is really about getting you from point a to point b and understanding in because every every customer in their minds, all of us, have some something that we're striving to to get to get to. Right? Like, right now, we're thinking about 2015.
Brian Casel:Twelve months from now, I want things to be different than they are today. Everybody has that kind of vision, of what they want, where they wanna go. It's about figuring out, like, what what path do you see yourself going on and and how can how can we get you there faster? How can we make that happen for you? Right.
Jordan Gal:You know? The people I
Brian Casel:understand it.
Jordan Gal:The people that show you the way, the people that promise you and and show you that they can get you there, and have the right end goal in mind, those are people that get your business. You know, if if you really wanna start a podcast as as a business and you you look at John Lee Dumas, you know, offering you, I will show you how to create a podcast that's successful, and you listen to him every day. What what he's doing is he he knows who his customer is. He knows what they're trying to achieve. And then every day, he provides more and more and more value to get the people closer and closer and closer to their end result.
Jordan Gal:And then the closer you get people to their end result, the more the trust and desire to do business with you goes up. And then when you make the offer, you've you've built up trust and you've built up desire. And, you know, there's no wonder that they're more likely to to go with you and to to buy.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And I think this this also really comes down to to empathy and really empathizing with who your customer is and their their their challenge, their struggle. And just when you're giving away this this free solution, you know, as we'll talk more about the the lead magnet and how how that's structured and everything. But it what should really come through there is, look. I just wanna help you achieve that goal.
Brian Casel:No matter how however I can do that, whether you're gonna buy from me or not, I really care that you are gonna get to where you wanna be twelve months from
Jordan Gal:now. Mhmm.
Brian Casel:Yep. And that's that's what should come through in that.
Jordan Gal:Agreed. So now that we have or if we can visualize that we're we're at two different ends of the spectrum. On one side, at the very beginning, we know who the customer is. On the other side, all the way at the end, we know what their end result is. So what we're trying to do is move that customer as close to their end result as possible.
Jordan Gal:And what comes in the middle, what helps someone go closer and closer is your content. In in this circumstance, we're talking about an email nurture sequence. Right? So the way I think about the email sequence is that each email should bring the person closer and closer and closer to their end result. And the way to make this easy on yourself is to think about the starting point of where the customer is and the end point of where the desired result is.
Jordan Gal:What what information, what things, what what can you provide to that person along the way that will help them get there? And so what I try to do is I break it down into roadblocks. Right? So if you think to yourself, I am a digital marketing agency and my customer is a, I don't know, an e commerce store. And their desired end result is to grow to a certain level and, you know, provide the the owner more freedom to to deal with strategy.
Jordan Gal:Right? So what I would do is I would break down, okay, what are the steps? What are the what are the roadblocks that are preventing them from getting to their desired end result? So an example would be like, okay, the website is one major issue. Design and how that fits in is is a major issue.
Jordan Gal:Social media is another one. Blogging and then an overall marketing strategy. And then those roadblocks, what the information you believe would help somebody get closer to their end result, all you do is you take each roadblock and you turn that into an email. So Right. You're not just writing emails.
Jordan Gal:You're you're literally getting the person closer and closer and closer. Right? So I
Brian Casel:And every every email, every every kind of lesson in this, like, email course or crash course or whatever you call it, each one of those is a a kind of a mini problem solution.
Jordan Gal:Exactly right.
Brian Casel:Yeah.
Jordan Gal:Yep. Exactly right. And, yeah, that's that's perfect because then what you can do is you look at each roadblock and you break it down. What are the big buckets? What what are the big problems faced within this roadblock and how can you help them?
Jordan Gal:Whether it's your solution that can help them or just information or examples or templates, whatever you need to provide them that will help them. So if the first one is about, their website, what can you tell them about their website? Is it conversion rates? Is it copywriting? You know, what do you wanna cover in that first email that will actually help them?
Jordan Gal:So that's Yeah. That's how I look at it and that's how you make it a lot easier. You basically build yourself a blueprint. So you're not just looking at a blank piece of paper and saying, how am I gonna write seven emails? Like, no, Don't write seven emails.
Jordan Gal:Look at what would actually help them get to the end result. Maybe that's only four big chunks or or maybe it's six, and then that helps you, okay. I just need to write one email about website issues for ecommerce stores.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And, you know, I and we were mentioning how there are so many different ways that you can do this. An email course is just one option. I happen I I think we agree. An email course is is pretty effective.
Brian Casel:What I like about it is that it's, it's multi day, so it keeps you kind of top of mind over over the course of a week or or two weeks. Mhmm. Every couple days, you're hearing something new. So there's there's that. But that being said, mean, an email course does take a little bit more time to create.
Brian Casel:You know, you might spend, like, a whole week or two just creating it. That but it's you set it, and and then it runs Yeah. For for a long period of time.
Jordan Gal:Right. It's an asset.
Brian Casel:But other I mean, other ideas I I really like the idea of, like, a cheat sheet, you know, a one page PDF, or a checklist or something like that. It's much more lightweight in terms of content, but it's but the benefit is that it's, a quick win. It's like, enter your email and get get your answer to this question right now.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Well, don't think about yourself and think about what they're actually trying to achieve. And if what would help them achieve is a proposal template, right, if that's what would help them right at that stage in that email, then then give them a proposal template. Yeah. Right?
Jordan Gal:If that's one of the main issues that you're trying to help your customer, your potential customer get better at or improve or win, then do that. Yeah. Don't don't think about yourself and what what you wanna do. Just put yourself in their shoes and say, okay. Here, a proposal template would be most helpful.
Jordan Gal:That's what I would want if I were in their shoes and give them one.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And I was talking to, to Chris Vannoy, who is, he's he's starting up a new kind of productized service called, GA Bench, which is gagabench.com, Google analytics bench.com. And it's kind of like a what I like about it is it's kinda like the WP curve, but for Google Analytics. Like Oh, cool. On call support, answer your questions, help you get around Google Analytics because we all know it's kind of like a nightmare in there.
Brian Casel:His lead magnet that he's putting together right now is, a question. It's it's just a form on the website. One like, what is your biggest question about Google Analytics? Type it in here. Send.
Brian Casel:You know? And it's it's a very manual process, a manual lead magnet, but it's something of value for free. And it's You know, all it takes is hooking up a quick form. You know, that's the kind of thing that you can just put right, like, right on the homepage, and and you could start giving value to your visitors right away.
Jordan Gal:Right. You don't necessarily have to put together a beautiful PDF. If you think the thing most valuable to your potential customer is just having, you know, a question answered, then that's fine. That doesn't need to be anything other than that. Yeah.
Jordan Gal:That's that's great. That's that's, you know, knowing your customer. Yep. Alright. So that is the email sequence, basically providing content that gets the person closer to their end result.
Jordan Gal:Cool. Step four is the offer. Obviously, you're doing this whole thing so that you have the opportunity to make your offer in a much better setting than, you know, where you started off just on the site the first time they came there. So on the offer, there's a whole science behind this, but essentially, you wanna make it as valuable as possible or at least position the offer to sound as valuable as possible. So if, you know, you're doing consulting and you want a sixty minute strategy session, you know, don't call it sign up for a consultation with me.
Jordan Gal:Maybe put a little pressure on it and say you only do a certain number of these per week and get your questions answered by an expert and there's no obligation. You know, position it so that it's actually valuable. And because you have provided a lot of value upfront, making the offer here is gonna make it more effective. Mhmm. In addition to that, don't just make the offer once.
Jordan Gal:Follow-up. What what I like to do at the end of every email sequence, so once the content is over, then I make the offer and then I send out one more email that's pure value. Like, hey, I just did an interview on marketingoptimization.tv that talks all about e commerce optimization. Think you'll find valuable. Here's the link.
Jordan Gal:Boom. So it's just value. And then the next email after that is pure offer. So it's 100% straightforward. Sign up for a free trial.
Jordan Gal:Here's a testimonial from a previous customer. Are you ready to start converting abandoned carts? Click here to start a free trial. So it's like I feel like earn earn that right by providing a lot of good information. And then the follow-up instead of just following up with a hammer offer, giving a little value in between and then the next day making the very straightforward offer.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And I think, you know, different people, different companies have different levels of of kind of, like, comfort with with how direct you're gonna make your your pitch and your offer. You know, I I know people who just have a lot of success simply mentioning their thing in, a PS at the end of an email. Mhmm. Of course, a lot of people go go with just full on like, a whole valuable email sequence, and then the fifth or sixth email is this is all about the product.
Brian Casel:Mhmm. And I and I think that there are different ways to make that work and weave it in. One thing that I there I I think there's nothing wrong with having the final email at the end of being all about the offer, but I think you definitely need to seed the fact that there is a product at at the end of this sequence. Right?
Jordan Gal:I I think You don't wanna
Brian Casel:I think you don't wanna sell
Jordan Gal:the entire time.
Brian Casel:But Right. You don't wanna be selling the entire time, but you wanna mention, like, you know, somewhere early on in in the first email or two, you know, that like, there's there are different ways to mention it, but, you know, you know, I'm Brian Castle. I also do this thing over here, but now I'm gonna teach you this stuff for free. Or or I'll tell you more about this later or, you know, something
Jordan Gal:Yeah.
Brian Casel:To to or, you know, because I I think I think coming out of nowhere at the end, I I don't know. It's a good There's just different I guess it kinda depends on the product, depends on on where you're at with it. But Yeah.
Jordan Gal:No. It's it's a good point. It's, it's tricky to do in practice, but I don't Once you start writing, I feel like it you find places where where it makes sense.
Brian Casel:Yeah. And I've seen it actually done more often in in webinars. Like, webinars are kind of notorious not notorious. That's the wrong word. But the they're known for as a sales tool.
Brian Casel:Right?
Jordan Gal:Mhmm.
Brian Casel:High value educational content for the first part, and then at the end, there's some kind of pitch. And I think for a while there, it was let's not talk about anything related to the product until we get to that point. But more recently, the ones that I've been hearing more about and checking out lately, they'll mention something about the product during the first ten minutes.
Jordan Gal:Yes. I think that's
Brian Casel:just Like a a two second mention of it. Mhmm.
Jordan Gal:That's just the the evolution of, you know, how often people consume webinars. It's it's no longer the element of surprise of, oh, wow. I guess I can do this for myself if I buy this product. It's it's known that there's gonna be a pitch. And so I think you build a little bit more trust by mentioning upfront.
Jordan Gal:Yep. Yeah. There's no there's no reason. There's no shame in it. Sure.
Jordan Gal:Okay. So that's the offer. The fifth part, now we're at the lead magnet. So, you know, the reason I think it's easier and more effective to leave the lead magnet to the end here is because it should really help lead into your funnel. That's not a complete requirement, but it helps if it leads into your funnel.
Jordan Gal:Now that you know what your funnel looks like and the issues that you're covering, it's a lot easier to think about, okay, what would make sense at the front of this? Right? It's also much easier to create now. You just wrote out, you know, 400, 500 words times six, seven, eight emails. You're just thinking about this.
Jordan Gal:It's as you go, as I write the emails, I just write down lead magnet ideas. Because every right? People worry about giving away too much free content. It's things don't work that way. There are so many gaps that all these gaps as you're writing that you hear yourself like, oh, there's no way I could possibly cover this detail because it doesn't make sense right now.
Jordan Gal:These are just lead magnet ideas. You just write them down as you write your email sequence, and when you get to the end, you'll have plenty of ideas.
Brian Casel:Alright. I I have a question here. Clarify because we talked about the email sequence Mhmm. And writing writing those emails. And now we're talking about the lead magnet.
Brian Casel:I kind of thought that the email sequence is the lead magnet. Or or you or is there like a distinction there?
Jordan Gal:Well, there's a version of that, and that's that's the course. Right? So right now, if you sign up for for Drip or you go to someone's site who's using Drip, the default mode, the default sales funnel that Drip uses is the the content in the emails is the lead magnet. Mhmm. It's if you give me your email, I will give you a seven part course on how to optimize your e commerce site.
Jordan Gal:That's that's one way to do it. Right. Right. The but I mean, there's no right or wrong. That's just one way to do it.
Brian Casel:You're saying, like, add in, like, one more step just before the course.
Jordan Gal:Just before that. Exactly right. So which traditionally a short piece of content that is easily consumed in just a few minutes, that it's very specific about a specific issue, and that it doesn't take you forever to create. So if you go to carthook.com, the lead magnet I'm using is a sample abandoned cart campaign. Right?
Jordan Gal:So I'm assuming this person already is aware of abandoned cart software, and I'm giving them the opportunity to see what a real campaign looks like. And in that, I, like, show my expertise. I talk about why things are a certain way and why it's more effective in the first email to not be sales y and all these other things. Once they download that, that's when they get dropped into the email list, and the next day, the email sequence begins. So you can you can
Brian Casel:do it
Jordan Gal:you can do it with lead magnet up front or not. If you if you know and if you have in mind something really specific for the lead magnet, then I think it's better to use it. If you don't wanna deal
Brian Casel:with it,
Jordan Gal:then you can just you can just do a course. You can just say opt in for a five day course on how to do x.
Brian Casel:Cool. So I I'm actually reworking my lead magnet and my sales funnel for restaurant engine right now. So this is like the perfect timing. Right. It is a course.
Brian Casel:It's actually a three part video series.
Jordan Gal:Mhmm.
Brian Casel:I'm not I'm not necessarily calling it a course. I'm kinda calling it like a series. It'll be dripped out over email. And I and I was kinda going back and forth. I'm like, should there be a step one before before we even send those emails?
Brian Casel:Should should they call to action and be get your free cheat sheet, which answers this burning question that I know you have, or should it be opt in for this three part video series? And and what you're saying or or, basically, what you've been doing on Cardhook is enter your email address and you'll get this instant win, this sneak peek at a sample abandoned cart. And then from there, day two, day three, they start getting a sequence of emails.
Jordan Gal:Exactly right. And you
Brian Casel:And and they're not they didn't necessarily Ask for it. Not that this is a bad thing. They but they didn't opt in for a sequence of emails, but they're just gonna hear more from you.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. And and you'll see how a lot of other people do it. It's, you know, you have to make the transition subtly. So you say, here is the sample abandoned cart campaign that you asked for. Keep an eye out over the next few days, and I'll be providing you with, you know, with more optimization goodness.
Brian Casel:Gotcha.
Jordan Gal:Yep.
Brian Casel:And and this is this is a powerful concept because the whole the whole idea you wanna make that very first step. I think you you illustrated this really well with the idea of a hurdle. Mhmm. Right? So the very first step that a total stranger, total cold visitor traffic who comes to your site for the first time or maybe they're seeing a, like, a Facebook ad for the first time with your brand, that first step has to be so low, so easy to get over that hurdle.
Brian Casel:You know?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. That's that's the ideal.
Brian Casel:And, like, an instant download is is an easier lower hurdle than committing to a five day course. Yep. That's Which is easier than committing to buying something, and that's the whole idea
Jordan Gal:with this. Exactly right. You just wanna lower it as much as possible, and you have to think about context. So the truth is, if you go to karthook.com and opt in for that sample abandoned cart campaign, I have actually disabled the, the follow-up campaign because I have found it more effective. The second somebody downloads that, I call them.
Jordan Gal:Boom. I get them on the phone because I'm still at the stage where I can do that. So I have like a five part email series that goes out after that and I actually just disabled it to experiment with instead of waiting a few days, let me just see if I can call them and that's been working. So right at the same time, that would never work for Facebook ads. So I've been running Facebook ads, but what am I gonna run Facebook ads to like a landing page that promises a seven day course?
Jordan Gal:Like, no. I run Facebook ads to basically a PDF of, you know, a very specific issue being solved and then that leads into an email course. So, yeah. So it's like different contexts. Right?
Jordan Gal:If I'm on your personal website that you talk about marketing and I read your blog regularly, and you have an opt in for a five day course on how to do x, like, I'm much more likely to take that. I don't need a lead magnet. So it depends on it depends on
Brian Casel:And that's where you can get into using things like retargeting ads.
Jordan Gal:Mhmm.
Brian Casel:People who've been on your site before, you can start to show them things that are a little bit higher of a hurdle, but they already know you. Right.
Jordan Gal:So it's an easier sell. And right. This is why these these sales funnels are marketing assets. So somebody goes to carhook.com, they have the sample campaign. Those are people who are, like, very far along the decision process that they actually wanna see a sample campaign.
Jordan Gal:Those people, I should just call or have my salesperson call. But if they don't take that action, maybe on the exit pop up when they start to leave, I make an offer for a PDF. And if they opt in, then they go through a different sales funnel. Or if they don't do that, then you're doing retargeting ads that lead to a landing page for a webinar on how to optimize your e commerce store. Right?
Jordan Gal:So you have like these different angles aimed at people. Anybody who's really interested can sign up right now. People who are really interested but not quite there can sign up for the sample campaign. People who are interested but are gonna leave, I can give us something of, like, real value right now. And people that leave that already know me, you start using a branding opportunity, and then maybe those are the right people to do, to offer a webinar for because are you know they're in the right target market, but they're not quite ready, so you have a lot of work to do to build up their trust.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Totally.
Jordan Gal:Right. So what we just described is, my little fantasy marketing scenario. So all of my competitors think of themselves and not listen to this. But this is this is what I need to build over the next, like, you know, two months.
Brian Casel:You know? And we're we're throwing a lot of things out there. Like, what you just described is, like, it's a pretty complex, like, angles, different pathways that customers would take. There's a lot to this, but you don't need to do all of it No. On day one.
Brian Casel:It it this stuff gets developed over years. I'm three years into restaurant, I'm redoing things all the time.
Jordan Gal:Right. Like, understanding what's possible and what you wanna do is you know, that's like step one. And then you have to calm down and just do one thing at a time.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Like this the the if you have nothing today, if all you have is a product page or maybe maybe you have, a new blog or whatever, start with the simplest funnel possible. And that's basically just like a a one time down like, some kind of incentive. Like, write something in a Google Doc, export it as a PDF that and that has has some value, answer some kind of question, offer that in exchange for an email address, and that's how you start to build your list and start to get those leads in the door. And then from there, you know, you know, think about how you how you can start adding on the next level of moving them toward a sale.
Brian Casel:But in in the early days, just start building the list.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Build a list and then build your build your first funnel. Keep it simple, and then you work from there. And and Yep. All these things build on top of themselves.
Jordan Gal:So right now that I have a few email sequences written out, you can see how, oh, this person opted into this but didn't buy. Maybe I should just drop them into the other one and just keep the whole thing running without doing any additional work. So it starts to compound. But it's overwhelming to think about, you know, doing all of it. So I Yeah.
Brian Casel:And and the other thing that I I see done a little bit, you know, doing things wrong a little bit, and I I've done this myself a number of times. That lead magnet is a little bit disconnected from the sale of the product. And so we're we're talking about giving away something of value for free, but it's it can't just be anything. It has to be it has to be solving the same problem that your product solves, but on some kind of, like, different level or lower level.
Jordan Gal:So I think I I think we disagree on that part. It's it's not like either one of us is right or wrong to to to think that way or not, but I don't it's not a 100% necessary to be that closely related to your product. I don't think.
Brian Casel:I guess I guess what I mean is like
Jordan Gal:I don't know. If it's if it's for the right person, the right situation, who's your real ideal customer, you know, if you think about their problems, even if it's not that closely related. Right? If you think about like the HubSpot world of like a a very sophisticated process, right, there there are different tiers in the buying process. So the the in the awareness tier and someone knows that they have a problem, right, there are certain lead magnets and pieces of content that are useful there.
Jordan Gal:And in a, you know, in a much further along in the decision process where people know or aware that they have a problem, aware that there's a solution, and now are interested in your specific solution but haven't decided to buy it, you're gonna provide content that's very different for each each stage.
Brian Casel:Well, I I guess I guess that, like, for HubSpot, for example, I guess their main I don't use their products. Their main thing is they kinda do, like, automated email email, like, and lead capture and and that kind of stuff. Right?
Jordan Gal:Well, they do inbound and content marketing, but but their philosophy is providing the right content to the right people at the right time. And and you can't do that unless you know who they are, what they've consumed in the past, and where they are in this decision process. That's starting to get to the next level of sophistication that I don't think most people in our situation, you know
Brian Casel:Right. Or or okay. So I mean, like, something simple, like, you know, I I don't know how Rob is doing his his email stuff for for for drip, but, like, the whole like, drip does email marketing. And, like, the a lead magnet for that could be something along the lines of, like, how to get more, like, how how to how to get more customers for your SaaS app. And it that doesn't necessarily have to be about email marketing or how to write better emails or how to send better emails or anything like that.
Brian Casel:It can just be about getting more customers, you know, for your for your bootstrapped SaaS app.
Jordan Gal:Right.
Brian Casel:So And and that's what what I'm saying is, like, that's solving the same end goal problem that that that audience has. It it moves me toward that goal of getting more customers. Maybe you're telling me some kind of information about, you know, I don't know, just connecting with with customers in a better way. And then later on, I'm I'm learning more about how email is the right way to do that and how, you know, automated sequences are the right way to do that. And then I get into drip.
Brian Casel:Yes. But but you don't want you don't wanna send you don't wanna give away like
Jordan Gal:Yeah. You wanna be out of out of left field. But Yeah. But it's tricky. If you think about a a solution like cart hook, it's it's specific.
Jordan Gal:Right? And and people don't think about abandoned carts that much, but they they do think about they're making their ecommerce store more successful. So one of the lead magnets I have is five tools to optimize your ecommerce site. And from there, if I assume, okay, people who are interested in optimizing their ecommerce site, this is the same type of customer who's looking to squeeze more out of their out of their current business. They want more.
Jordan Gal:They want improvement. They want more speed. They they want their e commerce store to improve in all these different ways. That's the type of that's my customer. The person who says, sure.
Jordan Gal:I'll try abandoned carts because I'm in the mode of I will try new things and more things because I wanna keep moving forward.
Brian Casel:Yeah. I mean, five tools to optimize your ecommerce store, that is in a in a much smaller way solving the same problem that CartHook solved.
Jordan Gal:It's in the same direction. Right? CartHook
Brian Casel:I mean, CartHook is not in optimizes conversions on the on the shopping cart.
Jordan Gal:Right. But it's not in there.
Brian Casel:Helping you.
Jordan Gal:CartHook is not Right.
Dan Norris:It's not one
Jordan Gal:of those five tools. It's just Right.
Brian Casel:But it's helping them get more Right. It's aimed
Jordan Gal:and is talking to the right people, getting them in the right direction. Yeah. So it's, you know, I suspect that we agree 80% and disagree 20% because it's just based on the situation or
Brian Casel:Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, like every every Yeah. Content, every
Jordan Gal:Or it's new. Product is different. Yes. The the nuance of it. So, yeah, let's let's let's take this thing home.
Jordan Gal:On on a lead magnet, right, I think I think it's important to keep in mind that my version of an ideal lead magnet takes a few minutes to consume. It's very specific about a problem and should not take you more than, you know, two, three hours to to create because it might not work. It you do not wanna put the real content, the real value that you're gonna provide is in the email sequence. It's not the lead magnet is a way in in in this scenario at least. So you don't need to stake everything.
Jordan Gal:The truth is you are going to continuously change that lead magnet around, you know, throughout the life. Exactly. It's it's
Brian Casel:And I think Totally. And that's is something that, like, I I was thinking about back and forth, but now I'm fully on board with the whole idea that, like, there has to be some lower level lead magnet before you get into an email sequence to nurture the lead. And I wasn't totally on board with that before as I'm reworking things in, in in Restaurant Engine right now. And and like you said, like, it's it's it's really quick to create, and then you can test a bunch of different options. You know?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. I I did this recently. And the
Brian Casel:more you learn about your customer, you you understand, like, what is the the most burning question on their mind that you can use as as a lead magnet?
Jordan Gal:Yep. I did this recently. I wrote out a whole email sequence that I'm ex you know, excited about. And then I create a lead magnet, and then I ran about a $150 worth of Facebook ads, it was it was, enough clicks, enough visits to the landing page to tell me that the lead magnet I had created was a failure. But it doesn't mean all the work I did in the email sequence in the actual really hard work is a failure.
Jordan Gal:It means I need to change my lead magnet. Right? And it's not difficult to do because if one doesn't completely rely on the other, right, all I do in a transition is I'll say, thanks for downloading the five tools to optimize your e commerce store, paper. If you're interested about optimizing your e commerce store, you're clearly you know, on the path to building your e commerce business. And here's a story I think you'll find really valuable.
Jordan Gal:And then I dive into the email content. Right? So this this particular lead magnet was a failure. So now if I go and create a different lead magnet, I spend another three hours, I create a PDF and I say, okay, now I'm gonna do x. So I can start running ads to that and then just take the entire email sequence in drip, make a copy of it, go to the first paragraph of email one and say, thanks for downloading the enter new lead magnet name here.
Jordan Gal:If you're interested in that, you're clearly interested in this, let me tell you a story that you're gonna find interesting and then boom, I didn't waste, you know, twenty hours of my time on the email sequence. I got the lead magnet wrong. So let's ditch that and and try another one.
Brian Casel:Yep. Totally. So what what's next? I I know we're, we're gonna wrap up here pretty soon, but, like, should we talk about tools or or measuring this stuff, or should we go from here?
Jordan Gal:Yeah. I I think the the tools and the software is the last piece of it, and I think I think it's good that we talk about it last because it really your customer does not care if your email comes from Aweber, Mailchimp, you know, Leadpages or Unbounce or a Wufoo form. It's not nearly as important as the actual content. So the only thing I say when it comes to software, two things. Keep it as simple as possible.
Jordan Gal:And number two, don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole. So what I mean by that is keeping it as simple as possible, I I like to use software that is intended for exactly this. And that's that's the other part of don't try to fit, you know, a square into a round hole. Yeah. If you if you tried building an automated email sequence in Mailchimp, I salute you.
Jordan Gal:You know, hallelujah. It is not cool. It's not easy because it's not built for it. So I don't think that's keeping it simple.
Brian Casel:I I will say that Mailchimp is good if you're starting from zero and you're just getting started. But you can do a an autoresponder in Mailchimp. And I No. It's for for for a while using Mailchimp, but you do get to the point where it's, like, where you realize, look. Mailchimp is not made for this.
Brian Casel:And you start to, you know, wanna, like, measure it and and then, like, move subscribers from the from the sequence into, like, another segment of the list. Like, that kind of stuff in Mailchimp is impossible. And and that's where I I went over to Drip and, you know Yep. That's where that kind of made sense. But, I think for someone who's just starting out and, like, has never created any kind of automated email sequence before Mhmm.
Brian Casel:Mailchimp or an Aweber, you know, is
Jordan Gal:Yeah. Is I would
Brian Casel:recommend kind of a good step one.
Jordan Gal:I'd recommend Aweber. It's it's $19 a month. It's not that much money, and it's built for auto responders. So the whole software just makes sense with exactly this sequence.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Honestly, they all do variations of the same thing. And and and, yeah, like, AWeber is is really good for that.
Jordan Gal:Right. Anybody a little more further along or sophisticated or who cares about design experience, I would I would recommend Getrip because, it's built for this. So it makes sense. It just yeah. It's hard enough to getting this done and off the ground.
Jordan Gal:Don't put obstacles in your way. So I like Leadpages for the lead capture, but you can use Wufoo, you can use Unbounce, you can use whatever you want to grab an email address. Or you can just use the opt in forms that are provided by the email software that you use. So my my fantasy scenario is Leadpages and and Drip.
Brian Casel:This has been a big struggle for me. I've I've signed up for Leadpages on numerous times, and then I I I soon after that canceled because
Jordan Gal:because you're designer.
Brian Casel:Web designer developer. I have to have my hands on every pixel on the screen, you know. And then I end up just building it myself, like designing a landing page myself. If if
Jordan Gal:you can do it, hallelujah.
Brian Casel:For for you web designers out there, landing pages you know, targeted landing pages don't have to be your home page. You know, they're they're not necessarily seen by a large number of visitors. They're only seen by, like, a targeted group of visitors. And I think they're important, especially if you really care about design, which I think you probably should. Doesn't mean go if you're not a designer, don't go out and hire a designer to design one custom.
Brian Casel:Use something like lead pages. Use some use a template, you know, so that you can kind of throw these up and test them and then iterate.
Jordan Gal:Yes. And if you are not technical like I am, Leadpages, I like because it it constrains me. So I love Unbounce, and I like designing in general but not coding. So Unbounce lets you make a web page look exactly the way you want. For me, that's a curse.
Jordan Gal:For me, that means spending twelve hours on a landing page. And in Leadpages, it constrains you just enough that, you know, you can still be creative. You can make a lead page look, you know, very different from where it starts off, but you do not have full control. And that forces me to spend two hours on a landing page instead of, you know, twelve.
Brian Casel:Yeah. Forces you to focus only on the copy, which, which tends to be even more important.
Jordan Gal:Yeah. And oftentimes, ugly ugly converts. You know, I opt in plenty to a totally blank white page with a paragraph of copy, an image, and a button because it's talking about what I want. I I don't think people care nearly as much as you care. True.
Jordan Gal:So that's it. That's enough. That's my that's my webinar. Normally, I would say and if if you're still struggling on how to get this done, if it's
Brian Casel:still You wanna sound take this to the next level.
Jordan Gal:If it still sounds like a little too much for you to do, I have the sales funnel. Yeah.
Brian Casel:Yep. Yes. Cool. So, I mean, that that was awesome, Jordan. You know, thanks for for going through all that.
Brian Casel:And My pleasure.
Jordan Gal:It's like
Brian Casel:a I think we'll invite you back on the show for next week.
Jordan Gal:Alright. Cool. Cool. Cool. No.
Jordan Gal:I think it was nice to get a refresh of it and also, you know, the shame that goes along with, like, being an expert but not doing not doing it for yourself. You know, like, the the shoemaker, the cobbler's kids have no shoes sort of situation. So done this for other people, I've done it for myself some, but it's like I still have a lot to do for for for Kartik on this side of things. And going through it, kinda shames me into like, damn, man. I should just just do more of it.
Jordan Gal:So it was, it was a good refresher and a nice a nice bout of guilt to, to move me along. Awesome. Cool. So, should we wrap this up? What,
Brian Casel:Yeah. So that well, that wraps it up. And, from here, you can, of course, head over to bootstrappedweb.com. That's where you'll find the whole backlog of episodes. You can get on the email list.
Brian Casel:You'll get a reminder every time we have a new episode, which comes out, hopefully, every Thursday morning. And, as always, if you're enjoying the show, head over to iTunes. Give us that five star review. Send in your questions at bootstrapped web dot com slash ask, and maybe we'll we'll cover them on the show sometime. And we'll catch up with you guys next week.
Jordan Gal:Yes. And if I get my act together, we'll we'll put something on the, on the episode page at bootstrapweb.com. You you know, whether whether the slides that I have from the webinar or a recording of the webinar. So I'll I'll try to do that in between all my, my travels.
Brian Casel:Yeah. We'll definitely get something in the show notes there. And, course, you you guys should definitely follow-up on what Jordan is doing. He probably doesn't want me to say this, but you wanna check out jordangal.com.
Jordan Gal:Yes.
Brian Casel:Loads of loads of good content in the works coming coming through there.
Jordan Gal:So Yes. You wanna
Brian Casel:learn more about the sales funnel stuff.
Jordan Gal:Alright. Cool. Thank you very much, Brian. Good stuff, man. Talk to soon.
Jordan Gal:Alright. See you, man.
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